Kogarasu Zukuri Questions

[Marshall A Rottman]

I absolutely fell in love with the Kogarasu Zukuri style blade after seeing some pics on it. Though I have little practical need or use for it as a weapon: (I'm a practitioner of Battou jutsu) the design is marvelous and I'd adore having one. However: the only two producers I know to make this type are Cold Steel (part of their Imperial set, the double edge katana) and the Bugei Trading Company Kogarasu Maru (Little Crow).

I don't have $1,500+ to spend on the item so I'm looking into the one offered by Cold Steel. Has anyone owned or had an opportunity to take a really close inspection of one? In some close up photos from Blades-UK.com it looked like it was machine made because of how the spine (mune) met with the back edge, the handle cord (tsuka ittou) also looked like low quality cotton when Cold steel claims to use 100% silk.

So, if anyone's reading who owns or has had the chance to really inspect a Cold Steel imperial Double Edge Katana, I have a few questions that I hope you'll be able to answer.

1. How many safety pins (mekugi) are in the handle?

2. And how long is the tang (nakago)?

3. What is the handle cord (tsuka ittou material?

On a slightly more personalized note: does anyone own one of these and actually practice Shinken jutsu? I'd like to know how it handles. And if *anyone* knows of another company tat makes the Kogarasu Zukuri style blade, please let me know. My new e-mail address is DarknessBryght@AOL.com. I haven't changed my sword forum profile yet, Been a tad busy lately.

[Chris Holzman]

Originally posted by Marshall A Rottman
I absolutely fell in love with the Kogarasu Zukuri style blade after seeing some pics on it. Though I have little practical need or use for it as a weapon: (I'm a practitioner of Battou jutsu) the design is marvelous and I'd adore having one. However: the only two producers I know to make this type are Cold Steel (part of their Imperial set, the double edge katana) and the Bugei Trading Company Kogarasu Maru (Little Crow).

I don't have $1,500+ to spend on the item so I'm looking into the one offered by Cold Steel. Has anyone owned or had an opportunity to take a really close inspection of one? In some close up photos from Blades-UK.com it looked like it was machine made because of how the spine (mune) met with the back edge, the handle cord (tsuka ittou) also looked like low quality cotton when Cold steel claims to use 100% silk.

So, if anyone's reading who owns or has had the chance to really inspect a Cold Steel imperial Double Edge Katana, I have a few questions that I hope you'll be able to answer.

1. How many safety pins (mekugi) are in the handle?

2. And how long is the tang (nakago)?

3. What is the handle cord (tsuka ittou material?

On a slightly more personalized note: does anyone own one of these and actually practice Shinken jutsu? I'd like to know how it handles. And if *anyone* knows of another company tat makes the Kogarasu Zukuri style blade, please let me know. My new e-mail address is DarknessBryght@AOL.com. I haven't changed my sword forum profile yet, Been a tad busy lately.

I've handled and inspected one of the cold steel ones, and my dojo mate cut with it. It may have simply been this particular piece, but frankly, it sucked.

When recieved, the sword would not seat in the saya properly, because the koiguchi and habaki-ana was cut poorly, and would only allow 3/4 of the habaki into the saya. It was also as dull as a butter knife. It *barely* cut with the true edge, and the back edge was utterly hopeless. I really don't remember the ito - it didn't make much of an impression on me when I saw the thing a couple years ago.

The nakago to tsuka ratio is pretty traditional, around 2/3rds or maybe a little more. It has one mekugi, also as typically traditional. Remember that the nakago to tsuka fit is a friction fit, and the mekugi is really just there to snug the nakago down into the tsuka, and prevent it from departing the tsuka. the real question, is of course, how well is the tsuka carved. in this case it wasn't bad. a good tight fit at least the equal of the chen stuff of the same price range.

As far as the utility of the false edge - once you understand the real advantages it gives, you'd never want to be without it. A little deeper curve in the blade would make it more useful, but as it is, it could be utterly, and fatally confusing for an opponent who didn't understand it and take it into account.

In all, If I give them the benefit of the doubt as to the quality issues that this one suffered, overall its a rather nice sword - for the price. of course, in this price range they're still pretty much disposable katana. use it, abuse it, throw it away, get another. nothing too special about it.

hope this helps,
chris

[Marshall A Rottman]

Drat, I suppose I could wait a while longer and buy the one that Bugei offers then. thanks much for the information. Glad I didn't buy the thing with high expectations and get a major let down. As to the one safety pin and what you said about tsuka fit to nakago: there's a very good reason I insist on 2 mekugi even if I have to take a power tool to a tsuka myself and put in a second mekugiana. The following is why I only use katana with 2 mekugi.

[09/19/1981, Kashima, Japan]

6th Grade Student Killed While Watching Practice:

KASHIMA. On September 19th at around 8:35pm, Mr. Sakamoto Katsu (45 yrs old) was practicing Iaido in the Kashima Central Public Community Center when the mekugi [retaining pin] of his sword fell out. He swung the sword down and the blade flew out, striking the nearby eldest son of Mr. Nishi Toshikatsu, Takao (12 yrs old). A sixth grade student, Takao was killed when he was pierced in the left side of his chest. He was immediately rushed to the Japan Red Cross Hospital in Kumamoto City where he was pronounced dead on arrival. Takao had just finished practicing Judo, and was observing Mr. Sakamoto's Iaido.

- Reported by the Kumamoto Daily Newspaper, Sunday, 20 September, 1981. Translation courtesy of Guy H. Power.

[Chris Holzman]

Originally posted by Marshall A Rottman
Drat, I suppose I could wait a while longer and buy the one that Bugei offers then. thanks much for the information. Glad I didn't buy the thing with high expectations and get a major let down. As to the one safety pin and what you said about tsuka fit to nakago: there's a very good reason I insist on 2 mekugi even if I have to take a power tool to a tsuka myself and put in a second mekugiana. The following is why I only use katana with 2 mekugi.

[09/19/1981, Kashima, Japan]

6th Grade Student Killed While Watching Practice:

KASHIMA. On September 19th at around 8:35pm, Mr. Sakamoto Katsu (45 yrs old) was practicing Iaido in the Kashima Central Public Community Center when the mekugi [retaining pin] of his sword fell out. He swung the sword down and the blade flew out, striking the nearby eldest son of Mr. Nishi Toshikatsu, Takao (12 yrs old). A sixth grade student, Takao was killed when he was pierced in the left side of his chest. He was immediately rushed to the Japan Red Cross Hospital in Kumamoto City where he was pronounced dead on arrival. Takao had just finished practicing Judo, and was observing Mr. Sakamoto's Iaido.

- Reported by the Kumamoto Daily Newspaper, Sunday, 20 September, 1981. Translation courtesy of Guy H. Power.

Yes, that is a tragedy.. however, I think the moral of the story, and the key words there are 'fell out'
If something is *falling out* that is probably indicative of a lack of routine maintenence, or ill fitting mekugi. Practitioners have a *reasponsibility* to themselves and their dojomates, or audience, to make sure that their equipment is in good working order. A second mekugi may only work to counteract the first one, if installed improperly. If one is seating the blade, and the other is trying to push it loose a bit (and when it goes in, it may *feel* tighter, since its trying to push the nakago up, against the other mekugi) you have a situation where you're putting the whole weight of the blade and the forces sustained during the cut, on the mekugi itself, instead of distributed through the tsuka. Mekugi are consumable, disposable items that need to be replaced semi-regularly. they wear, especially if people are putting them in and taking them out all the time, or as in todays world of iaito blades that have all kinds of shims in the tsuka to keep it tight, and where people aren't breaking the swords down even once a year to check the tsuka fit, and so on, you never get to see the wear on the mekugi until the start to get loose, or just up and fall out one day. Tsuka wear, swell, shrink, crack, and so on. if people aren't taking things apart and inspecting once in a while, there is no way to know until something fails or starts wiggling. As users, we have a responsibility to check that mekugi at the beginning of every practice, and make sure that it is good and tight. if it wiggles, or pushes out under finger pressure, we must replace before continuing. That's our duty, period.

There are some swords out there with three - at 45 degree angles. I sure hope they're rounding the edges of the mekugi-ana off, because I have some chisels that have about a 45 degree angle, and they're darn sharp.. certainly sharp enough to cut through a bamboo mekugi over time. I hope also that they're not pushing against each other, rather than trying to seat the nakago in the tsuka - otherwise, I guess its just three to *break* rather than one.. and if people aren't at least removing the mekugi and checking/replacing now and then, well, I dont want to be downrange of that guy either.


I'm sorry for ranting, and I'm not taking a shot at you. I am trying to point out that these 'accidents' are probably more easily tracable to user negligence, and than happenstance, or a design failing in a piece of equipment that has been used for well over a thousand years, and constantly refined and reworked.

If you want two mekugi, add it. I just don't want anyone less experienced coming along finding this post and getting the idea that there is either: 1) some major design defect in traditional Japanese sword assembly methods, or 2) that having multiple mekugi somehow alleviates the real problem of the users neglect of maintenence, or that just putting a second mekugi in somehow provides extra safety in and of itself. A second mekugi, if made and installed correctly, will provide a good level of additional security - but if done incorrectly, its mere presence isn't indicative of anything.

As far as the cold steel double edge... well... frankly, it was *alright* but thats about all I'll give it. If you really want one, go for it - but the bugei kogarasu looks a lot better in my opinion, having only seen it in pictures.

Remember that even in buke-zukuri mounts, the cold steel kogarasu is no more practical for iai type kata than the bugei tachi version. Noto is problematic with both - probably best managed by either sticking the kissaki straight into the saya unguided, horizontally, or by pinching the shinogi between thumb and forefinger to guide it in. that back edge, if sharpened properly, would make mincemeat out of your hand in regular noto. On the other hand, the one I got to see, could easily have been noto'd normally, it was so dull. My wit (such as it is) is many times sharper than that particular example of Cold steel sword was.

hope this helps. good luck if you decide to buy it - you may need it, as well as a sharp file and a plentiful supply of sandpaper if you get another dull one.

[Marshall A Rottman]

LoL,

Yes - that is exactly why I said I have no practical use for it as a weapon. I practice Battou jutsu: pressing on the mune when half of it is sharpened is almost exactly the same as pressing on the edge while drawing and cutting; the first thing to be cut will be the saya, closely followed by your hand. The same place I found that article about the unfortunate child who was turned into a kabob by accident posts an article of an actual event when a top notch big league tamashigiri Performer at a Japanese seminar sliced off his own thumb.

He still practices and competes: but with a black glove on his left hand. I have no need of missing digits: I like all my fingers where they currently are - attached. I found the article in the "Library" portion of the website www.tsuki-kage.com. I just have a strange infatuation for the Kogarasu Zukuri style blade. Can't really explain it, I just love it's design. As for how I put in the second mekugi I usually take a drill bit about the same size as the first mekugi and drill it towards the opposite side of the first, once the drill bit penetrates the tang (I do it with the tsuka assembled so the pin will go in WITHOUT creating stress on the other pin, thus providing a secure snug fit), then go to a slightly smaller bit to finish drilling out the other side. Preserving the way a pin narrows. Then I take a carpenters knife and small file to define the area around the nearly created Mekugiana and clean it up.

The pin goes in opposite of the other, doesn't create stress on the other pin, creates a snug secure fit and ensures an extra measure of safety. After it's in and secure I also take it apart again to clean up the metal shaving inside, dust it out, etc. True it might create a bit of wear and tare, but over all it decreases stress because the more secure fit between the nakago and tsuka means it absorbs shock better.

In any case: I might point out that many early period Tachi's actually have three mekugianna, two side by side and one down near the bottom of the nakago. Since I have you ear anyway, what's your favorite type of hamon?

[Joe Pittman]

Marshall, look here for Amakuni and a variety of other Japanese blade shapes. www.dguertin.com I have an Honoto bare blade coming, myself being on the prowl for Moroha blades. Hope this helps, Joe

[K. Burash]

Just a short note about mekugi. All Last Legend's katanas go with 3 mekugi pins, that go at 45 degree. I've found one scetch of them:



I own one of their swords, but did not dismount it, so I can not tell if the edge of the mekugi-ana is rounded or not.

[les yeich]

i owned one of the cold steel version and sold it on the forum about a year ago. mine, however, was quite satisfactory. it was incredibly sharp and cut quite well. admittedly, i cut my hand resheathing it. if i were to describe it in one word, it would be easy: fast. ito is cotton, and i admit i don't believe i've ever read that cold steel uses silk. the entire imperial line uses cotton. the only draw-back for me was that it was pretty short, as most in this style are. also, i'm pretty sure the ones from guertin are only straight, but i may be wrong.

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally posted by K. Burash
Just a short note about mekugi. All Last Legend's katanas go with 3 mekugi pins, that go at 45 degree. I've found one scetch of them:



I own one of their swords, but did not dismount it, so I can not tell if the edge of the mekugi-ana is rounded or not.

thats a horrible way to put mekugi into a nakago...

[Chris Holzman]

Originally posted by Marshall A Rottman
Since I have you ear anyway, what's your favorite type of hamon?

Hmm... I'm not sure I have a favourite. some simply seem to go better with some types of blades or styles of hada, than others. What I really like blades where the hada and hamon seem to blend together. otherwise, if its something to be mounted in wild mounts, wild hamon is cool... sedate mounts, sedate hamon. not a fan of suguha, but pretty much anything else is good. also not a fan of the weird stuff like the chrysanthemum hamon, and so on.. but otherwise, its all good.
as a catchall, large gentle notare is good.

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally posted by Jeff Ellis
thats a horrible way to put mekugi into a nakago...

perhaps i should explain my feelings... putting the mekugi in at an angle is a great idea, in fact it can benefit the fit of the nakago into the nakago ana greatly by pulling the nagako into the ana futher and seating it properly. however, the angle at which last legend uses, 45 degrees, is too much. if i had the ability at the moment i would illustrate a much better way of using an angle, but i dont so please bear with me in this description.


keith larman once stated something similar, and thats where i am taking this from.

the mekugi ana should start on one side of the tsuka going straight in with the ana in the blade, (perhaps slightly offset downwards about 1/64th of an inch) however, the center point where it comes out should be slightly offset, towards the kashira, about 3/64ths of an inch, as so it causes a slight pull on the ana in the nakago as to pull the ana towards the kashira.

all last legends mekugi do is hold the blade in place, nothing more. if that..

[Jesse Pelayo]

To put it simply:

Bamboo is a very tough and resiliant plant. It's been known to be of many uses to Japanese from eating utensils, to building construction, to cutting targets for swordsmen. When most martial artists cut bamboo, they cut at an angle...bamboo cut at an angle...hmmm...

Bamboo is usually what is used for mekugi to hold the sword in the handle, right? Now, if you can picture the force that is mostly exerted on the blade, based on that sketch, the mekugi will be subject to pulling forces (blade wanting to fly out). Ever heard/seen of any swordsman try and cut bamboo straight across the grain? Damn near impossible. Its fiber is at its strongest and most resilient when the force of impact is directly perpendicular to the grain. This is why the swords I have seen mounted well are usually drilled as close to horizontal as possible.

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally posted by Jesse Pelayo
To put it simply:

Bamboo is a very tough and resiliant plant. It's been known to be of many uses to Japanese from eating utensils, to building construction, to cutting targets for swordsmen. When most martial artists cut bamboo, they cut at an angle...bamboo cut at an angle...hmmm...

Bamboo is usually what is used for mekugi to hold the sword in the handle, right? Now, if you can picture the force that is mostly exerted on the blade, based on that sketch, the mekugi will be subject to pulling forces (blade wanting to fly out). Ever heard/seen of any swordsman try and cut bamboo straight across the grain? Damn near impossible. Its fiber is at its strongest and most resilient when the force of impact is directly perpendicular to the grain. This is why the swords I have seen mounted well are usually drilled as close to horizontal as possible.

i should have said that... the holes are offset as so they are still as close to horizintal as possibe but able to pull the nagako into the ana. i think the possibility of using a thinner seppa while drilling the ana was mentioned as well, so the hole cna be straight but the nagako itself will be sligtly up more and plle don by the mekugi.

I'm slightly ADD and good at physics, i'm good at theory too... go figure hehe

[Marshall A Rottman]

Good lord I've turn the thread into a mekugi debate. I should have seen that coming. Oh well, can't change it now. If the tsuka is tight and the nakago goes most of the way through the Tsuka than yes: one mekugi properly installed as flatly lateral as possible (and well inspected before, during and after every use of the sword) should do. However - it's fairly easy to have an accident; say you're walking up to a tamashigiri floor rise and you trip (maybe hakama was too long) and you brace yourself against the steps. Unknowingly hitting the mekugi pin on the side that pushes it out. You already checked it - time for the cutting, now you're cutting with a loose wiggling mekugi and you don't know it.

This is just one example of something that is "possible" to happen. If you brace for the worst possible event, than you're always prepared and the worse possible will never happen. if you have a good snug tsuka, with two well installed mekugi pins each narrowing and having to be put in from opposite sides of the tsuka, with a nakago that goes almost ALL the way through the tsuka without narrowing in width or thickness - you can TRY to cause an accident and it's not going to happen. When dealing with dangerous weapons: safer IS better. Period.

When it comes to a blade hamon/hataraki, I like the Soshu School (Masamune style). With the ha in stark contrast to the rest of the blade and a nice even flow that continues uninterrupted through the kissaki. An attractive toran or Notare are also pleasant. When it comes to hamon/hataraki it's not really function but form: using modern steels you don't need a hamon - it's aesthetic and traditional.

*If* you're actually going to spend several thousand dollars on a sword that you had made, or that you found: it needs to be aesthetically pleasing to you on top of being functional (assuming it's going to be used as a weapon and not *just* as something ceremonial like to commemorate the birth of a new born baby). The following link is a good example of the kind of blade I like (hamon and activity wise): http://www.nihontoya.com/items/27000...0007store.html

Hope some of you agree with me: Soshu school (masamune style) is the most beautiful.

[Jeff Ellis]

but two mekugi can be just as bad as none if the second mekugi is put in wrong.

[Marshall A Rottman]

That's beside the point. One, two or three mekugi pins: if they're put in incorrectly than you have a bad tsuka. My post specified -

Originally posted by Marshall A Rottman
with two well installed mekugi pins each narrowing and having to be put in from opposite sides of the tsuka, with a nakago that goes almost ALL the way through the tsuka without narrowing in width or thickness - you can TRY to cause an accident and it's not going to happen.

Once again:

Originally posted by Marshall A Rottman
with two well installed mekugi.

That was the context in which I made the comparison between one mekugi, and two. As I said - if you have 3 mekugi but they're put in incorrectly or are otherwise faulty: just get a new tsuka.

The following is a practical application of the kind of tsuka/nakago/mekugi arrangement that is next to "User Proof." Meaning, despite the user they can barely cause an incident to happen even if they try. Which is best, besides - I personally like a good thick and wide nakago, it gives the tsuka something to really grab onto and prevents the tsuka from breaking (caused by handing a hand on the tsuka during a heavy cut, and no nakago inside the part your bottom hand was holding).

It also puts more weight in the tsuka and shifts the balance point closer to the tsuka (I like that, carpal tunnel you understand.) Even though the weight of the sword doesn't change it feels lighter because the balance is more towards your hands. That makes it easier to practice with Shinken regularly. The more you practice with Shinken the more comfortable and accustom you are to the procedure. (maintenance, etiquette, technique, it's weight and handling characteristics). This aids and helps you develop your skills to a greater degree.

http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/...nto_katana.htm

Thats quite an aggressive example of a prime Uchigatana. It's easy to see that monster was designed for combat. With how thick and wide it is, along with the nakago/tsuka/mekugi arrangement. It was meant to be used regularly and under combat conditions. (I'm fairly sure that's why earlier tachi blades commonly had 3 pins, they were used often and while on the battlefield you didn't have time to take apart your tsuka, repeated use over the course of a day is a LOT of vibration just itching to pop mekugi pins out of place. Three pins probably helped deal with the vibration and ensured you weren't dead if one *did* manage to pop out.)

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally posted by Marshall A Rottman

http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/...nto_katana.htm

Thats quite an aggressive example of a prime Uchigatana. It's easy to see that monster was designed for combat. With how thick and wide it is, along with the nakago/tsuka/mekugi arrangement. It was meant to be used regularly and under combat conditions. (I'm fairly sure that's why earlier tachi blades commonly had 3 pins, they were used often and while on the battlefield you didn't have time to take apart your tsuka, repeated use over the course of a day is a LOT of vibration just itching to pop mekugi pins out of place. Three pins probably helped deal with the vibration and ensured you weren't dead if one *did* manage to pop out.)

iy looks osuriage to me... but i could be wrong.

i understand what you are saying, but i wanted to clarify that putting 15 mekugi into a tsuka at a 45 degree angle is useless unless they are properly installed. it was nothing against you. now, back to the originl subject: is the cold steel "double edged katana" a good buy, or not?

[Marshall A Rottman]

Keeping in mind how many times I specified that the correct way to put them in - is laterally, not diagonally. I never said 45 degree angle (diagonal) in the first place, and I still don't. In any case: the Cold Steel Double edge katana - think I'll skip it. Cold Steel swords lack hamons and I'm pretty sure if I ask, Satit Sivarat could arrange a Kogarasu Zukuri to be made for me for less than Bugei's $1,525 price tag.

It's nice to have friends,

And I can also still pick and choose thins like length, sori, hamon, hada, kataraki, tsuka ittou, sageo, saya color and mounts, etc. etc. More bang for the buck. And his swords are made with the Yamato (Kyoshigi) forging method. Big plus in my book.

Now to clear up this mekugi business - keep in mind the following pic is just a representation. The mekugi should never protrude so far and I'm not the best paint specialist so the mekugi do look odd that's why I put the blue lateral bars to show. It's a representation of the inside of the tsuka from a spine perspective. same as the one higher on this page a spine profile view. http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/drago...GoodMekugi.GIF

Using this arrangement, should either side of the tsuka be hit or knocked against accidentally - only one mekugi loosens. The combination one equal force and pressure from a mekugi headed each direction crates a more snug and secure fit of the tsuka to the nakago, which allows it to deal with vibration better: thus also lessening the chances that one mekugi will loosen and start to wiggle.

[Jeff Ellis]

yes, your drawing is exactly what i was describing.

i'm not a fan of the last legend mounting style.. i bash it every chance i get hehe.

1 mekugi is enough, 2 is overkill if everything is right, 3... well they just beat it into the ground...