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Historical European Swordsmanship The sword martial arts of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, with an emphasis of their reconstruction through the study of period manuals. Official forum for Swordplay Symposium International, Greg Mele presiding.

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Chris Holzman (Offline)
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Radaelli: The man. - 09-22-2005, 10:57 AM

Caleb Hallgren posted this in another thread:

It happened in the 19th and 20th centuries when masters such as Raedelli tried to impose duelling sabers and civilian saber fighting onto the military cavalry with bad results.
I responded that the Radaellian treatise contains nothing of any reference to horses, cavalry, mounted use, or anything of the sort.

Yet, a quick google search reveals many statements along the lines of "Radaelli was a military veteran, and as such was soley concerned with mounted troops" and so on. The major thing I have noticed about these statements, is that none of them provide any sort of citation or source for the statement.

While I come from the Radaellian lineage through Santelli - Not much seems to be known about Radaelli as a person, beyond his birth and death dates, and the treatise concerning his system.

Can anyone here provide any sort of citable source material, or even 2nd hand accounts of conversations, etc, that would shed any light on these claims, other than by referencing the claims themselves in a sort of circular logic?

In sum, my question whether there is any valid, verifiable reason for the claims to exist, or are they merely an extension of the modern myth that the modern fencing sabre comes directly from a cavalry background (entirely ignoring infantry sabre use) and because Radaelli lived back in the old days, and taught sabre, and because the cavalry was used back in the old days, and used sabres, that therefore Radaelli must have taught a form of cavalry sabre?

Certainly, Radaelli taught at the military school in Milan, and later in Rome - but that does not equal, on its face, the teaching of cavalry.

Anyone?


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Sean Hayes's Avatar
Sean Hayes (Offline)
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Re: Radaelli: The man. - 09-22-2005, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Chris Holzman
While I come from the Radaellian lineage through Santelli - Not much seems to be known about Radaelli as a person, beyond his birth and death dates, and the treatise concerning his system.
I come by my Radaellian lineage through Maestro Gaugler. One of his teachers, Umberto Di Paola, was a master of the Scuola Magistrale and was taught by Antonio Pomponio, director of the Scuola Magistrale after Parise. Once the furor over the Parisian versus the Radaellian method had died down at the close of the 19th century, there was a general merging of elements of the Radaellian tradition into the practices of the Scuola Magistrale. Gaugler was a beneficiary of this. He taught us a mixed Parisian and Radaellian system.

The furor, by the way, was 9 parts political and one part technical. This was during the time of the Risorgimento, and some were concerned that Radaelli showed too many foreign influences in his system.

Can anyone here provide any sort of citable source material, or even 2nd hand accounts of conversations, etc, that would shed any light on these claims, other than by referencing the claims themselves in a sort of circular logic?
Not a single one. While I would be happy to review any books, letters or materials available on this topic, I am not aware of anything even remotely solid on it. I've heard a little of the same vague assertions you have, but never anything even circumstantial in the way of evidence. Maestro Gaugler never mentioned it that I recall, and he gave in-depth lectures on the 19th century schools and their methods during my tenure at the program.

Best,

Sean


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Chris Holzman (Offline)
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09-22-2005, 09:16 PM

Sean,

Replied to you via email, but wanted also to publically thank you for the update.


I've also posted this on the CFML - hopefully that will generate something as well. I would like to believe that there may be some people out there who know something beyond what we do, or might know someone who does. When I get a chance, perhaps I might email the USFA historian (Andy Shaw??) and see if he knows anything, or has some idea of contacts. I'm afraid that perhaps too many years have passed.

Thanks again,
Chris


Christopher A. Holzman, Esq.
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