Two handed islamic swords

M. Al-Awadhi · (#1)

Did anyone see a two handed islamic sword , I personally have a wierd two handed indian short sword , it's a tourist piece , but I've never seen a similar design before.
Sorry but I can't post any pics at the moment , but any info regarding two handed swords will be greatly helpful.

thanks.

M.Carter · (#2)

Never seen one before, though there is this firengi Indian swords which sometimes come with two hand hilt, but that is not Islamic anyway. Would love to see one.

M. Al-Awadhi · (#3)

Originally posted by M.Carter
Never seen one before, though there is this firengi Indian swords which sometimes come with two hand hilt, but that is not Islamic anyway. Would love to see one.

The hilt of my sword is completely different from the firengi hilt , the handle is roundly shaped , and it has a "s" shaped guard , the handle and the scabbared are made from heavily engraved wood , and the blade is similar to that of a chinese broadsword.

Andrew Winston · (#4)

Originally posted by M. Al-Awadhi
The hilt of my sword is completely different from the firengi hilt , the handle is roundly shaped , and it has a "s" shaped guard , the handle and the scabbared are made from heavily engraved wood , and the blade is similar to that of a chinese broadsword.

Mohammed, that sounds like one of the contemporary Thai swords (darb) being produced for export. Does it look like this?

Adam Rose · (#5)

There's always the sword of Mehmet the Conqueror (3rd from the right). The blade length is 106 cm, 126.5 cm overall - similar in size to a large European Longsword.

M. Al-Awadhi · (#6)

Originally posted by Andrew Winston
Mohammed, that sounds like one of the contemporary Thai swords (darb) being produced for export. Does it look like this?

Yes ! that's the one I'm talking about.
So it's not Indian.....

JTCrosby · (#7)

Andrew is right then that is a thai tourist darb, not islamic

M.Carter · (#8)

Originally posted by Adam Rose
There's always the sword of Mehmet the Conqueror (3rd from the right). The blade length is 106 cm, 126.5 cm overall - similar in size to a large European Longsword.

Adam, may I ask what the 4th and 5th swords from the right are, and what is their age?

Adam Rose · (#9)

Hi M.,

I don't know - I collected that photo somewhere, it might have been an eBay auction, and I don't have any more information, apart from a vague recollection that it might have been a catalog of the military museum at the Topkapi in Istanbul.

Rick Stroud · (#10)

Originally posted by M.Carter
Adam, may I ask what the 4th and 5th swords from the right are, and what is their age?

I believe both are early examples of Turkish Kilic.

M.Carter · (#11)

I had a feeling that these were somewhat the old Islamic straight swords, but I think Im wrong.

M. Al-Awadhi · (#12)

Originally posted by Adam Rose
There's always the sword of Mehmet the Conqueror (3rd from the right). The blade length is 106 cm, 126.5 cm overall - similar in size to a large European Longsword.

That's a very interesting sword Adam , thank you for posting.
Mehmet the Conqueror (or Mohammad Al-Fateh in Arabic) is a very important man in history , so I guess his sword is quite famous. Do you now if that design is popular among swordsmiths? and do you think he was the only one known to wield a two handed sword?

Adam Rose · (#13)

Originally posted by M. Al-Awadhi
Do you now if that design is popular among swordsmiths? and do you think he was the only one known to wield a two handed sword?

I'm not aware of any other existing sword of similar proportions. The closest thing I can recall are some Medieval Hungarian sabres that were usable two handed.

M.Carter · (#14)

I do not really think that two handed Islamic were common, they are actually very rare, as most Islamic swords are sabers to be used form horseback, it would be almost impossible two hold a sword with two hands while controlling your horse. Even this sword, I would doubt if it was ever used with two hands (if ever pulled out of the scabbard really!)

Adam Rose · (#15)

Originally posted by M.Carter
, it would be almost impossible two hold a sword with two hands while controlling your horse.

Shooting a bow requires two hands, and they seemed to manage that pretty well....

M.Carter · (#16)

Yes Adam, but when you are shooting a bow from horseback, you are not in the middle of the fray (or you'd get easily killed), you are quite distanced from the fight and pick your targets at ease while riding, but when you are using a sword, you have to control your horse's head and not crash into your brothers-in-arms, or even kill them.
You know what I mean

Adam Rose · (#17)

Originally posted by M.Carter
but when you are using a sword, you have to control your horse's head and not crash into your brothers-in-arms, or even kill them.

And you don't think this would be a concern shooting from horseback at the gallop in the middle of a formation of other riders?!?!?!?

Matt Easton · (#18)

For the record, there are images of Europeans using two-handed swords from horseback, though they are rare.
Also, in European art showing 'Turks' and 'Saracens' etc, two-handed falchions (curved and very broad) are often shown in their hands.

I read somewhere that some medieval two-handed shamshir had the tangs and hilts altered later to make them into one-handers, and that two-handers were popular for a short time (13th-15thC).

Matt

Adam Rose · (#19)

Here's a scan from Niccole's Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era showing how the reins were looped around the arm when both hands were busy. It's interesting how the one on the left is using a sword and buckler in each hand!

Matt Easton · (#20)

Adam, these drawings are taken from the 14thC Mamluk furisaya treatise that I talked about in another thread - it's in the British Library.

Matt