Dark Ages Movies?

David K. Wilson · (#1)

... Or Migration Era, if you prefer. Let's discuss movies covering the period from the end of the Western Empire to the time of Hastings (roughly, 410 to 1066 AD), King Arthur being the latest among them. Anyone have any favorites? Here's a list of some I've seen (and or own on DVD/VHS):

1. The Warlord -- Possibly the best "Dark Age" movie ever, starring Charlton Heston as a Norman Lord who is given command over a Celtic community (possibly in Brittany?) by Duke William (possibly the same guy who conquered the Saxons?). It's a rather dark story, with no easily defined "good" or "bad" guys. Pretty accurately done Vikings, too.
2. Speaking of Vikings, how about -- The Vikings, starring Kirk Douglas, Tony Curtis, and an unforgettable Ernest Borgnine (OOOOOODIN!!!). Among the most accurate portrayals of Viking arms, armor, ships, clothing, architecture, and even horses (!) ever put to film (other than documentaries). Yes, it can be a bit cheesy at times, but what did you expect.
3. The 13th Warrior. Another "Viking" film, not as accurate as The Vikings, I must admit this film has grown on me to the point where I enjoy it quite a bit, despite it's weak story line and inaccuracies in terms of arms and armor. However, the depictions of the Viking ethos, religion and mentality are pretty accurate, and the duel is a pretty accurate rendition of a Viking holmganga. Still, Robert Crichton's book Eaters of the Dead was better, and made things a bit more understandable (then again, Beowulf itself is better yet).
4. Dragonslayer -- this is of course a fantasy film, but it is set in 6th Century Britain somewhere. Historical accuracy? It's about a Wizard who fights a Dragon. Who cares? The arms and armor are, ehh, okay, including something that resembles a "mutant" Benty Grange-style helmet.
5. In that vein -- Dragonheart. Also set in Dark Age Britain, who can resist this charming story of a Dragon who befriends a down-on-his-luck Warrior? Sean Connery provides the voice of the wise Dragon, and Dennis Quaid is actually good as the warrior. Historical accuracy? It's about a talking Dragon. Again, who cares?
6. Merlin -- an earlier attempt to place the Arthur legend in a somewhat historical setting, it has a strong cast including Sam Neill as the wise old Wizard. One of the few depictions of the character of Vortigern, played by Rutger Hauer. An enjoyable, if lightweight effort.

Does anyone else have any other "Dark Ages" Favorites? Okay, sure, you can mention the "unhistorical Arthurs", from Camelot to Knights of the Round Table to Excalibur to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.... oh wait I just did *g*.....

David K. Wilson · (#2)

Just thought of one more, an obscure British effort from the early '80's titled Arthur, the Young King or something like that. Also an attempt to place the Arthur legend in a historical setting. No magic or quests, Arthur here is rather like a guerrilla warrior who takes on Picts, Scots and Saxons. The weapons generally look like they were drawn from a studio warehouse, the armor is non-existant (as it generally was in the Dark Ages). IIRC, there were a couple decent Saxon Shield-wall formations and Pictish "battle blocks". Beyond that, there's not much memorable about it....

T.L. Johnson · (#3)

Unidentified Flying Oddball. King Arthur and his court refer to the kingdom as "England". A sword gets magnetized to stick to the wielder's armor. King Arthur bats away a catapault's shot with Excalibur. A headless American astronaut jousts with Sir Mordred.

Ayyyyyy. That's realism for ya', right?

David K. Wilson · (#4)

I haven't seen that one in ages! It was a Disney production, wasn't it?

And I just thought of two more Arthurian stinkers:
1. First Knight. Kevin Costner should not play Robin Hood, and Richard Gere should not play Lancelot. But they did. Costner's movie was saved (barely) by the wonderful presence of Alan Rickman as the evil Sheriff, but Sean Connery could not save this one (he has failed us a couple times, unfortunately...).
2. Prince Valiant, the 50's version starring Robert Wagner, and James Mason as a traitorous Knight of the Round Table. A silly, campy story, including a silly, humorous love triangle (or rectangle, in this case), and the WORST depiction of Vikings ever put to film (helmets with huge horns and fur and bare chests (and fur on bare chests). Made me appreciate The 13th Warrior much more). Fun for the whole family!

Charles Dooley · (#5)

A fun viking movie, The Longships , especially Sidney Poitier as a Morrish prince.
The Viking Sagas has some decent parts, I believe it was made in Iceland with local actors.
The Cid also with Charleton Heston, but not nearly as good as The Warlord, is one of the few that doesn't have a viking theme.
The is a British movie about King Alfred from the late '60's that I saw many years ago. I don't remember much about it.
I wonder if there aren't some French or German movies about Charlemagne and Roland.

Douglas S · (#6)

Originally posted by D. Wilson
... Or Migration Era, if you prefer. ..
4. Dragonslayer -- this is of course a fantasy film, but it is set in 6th Century Britain somewhere. Historical accuracy? It's about a Wizard who fights a Dragon. Who cares? The arms and armor are, ehh, okay, including something that resembles a "mutant" Benty Grange-style helmet. ....

If I recall correctly, the first bit involved some very interesting if not authentic Anglo-Saxon costumes... But then, it's been a while....

Charles Dooley · (#7)

And, if you need something to do during the mushy parts when Richard Boone isn't around:

http://conteco.com/TheStore/Medieval/WL.htm

Hugh Fuller · (#8)

From the Conteco site mentioned above: http://conteco.com/Webphotos/Conteco/Catmed/VIK013.jpg

Has nobody who does these models ever looked at the hilt on a Viking Era (sic) sword?

Paul Hansen · (#9)

1. The Warlord -- Possibly the best "Dark Age" movie ever, starring Charlton Heston as a Norman Lord who is given command over a Celtic community (possibly in Brittany?) by Duke William (possibly the same guy who conquered the Saxons?). It's a rather dark story, with no easily defined "good" or "bad" guys. Pretty accurately done Vikings, too.

Actually, IIRC, the War Lord didn't have Vikings, but Frisian raiders. Again, a point for realism.

Hugh Fuller · (#10)

On a humorous note:
Erik the Viking (1989), directed by Terry Jones with the following:
Cast List
Tim Robbins ... Erik
Mickey Rooney ... Erik's Grandfather
Eartha Kitt ... Freya
Terry Jones ... King Arnulf
Imogen Stubbs ... Princess Aud
John Cleese ... Halfdan the Black
Tsutomu Sekine ... Slavemaster
Antony Sher ... Loki
Gary Cady ... Keitel Blacksmith
Charles McKeown ... Sven's Dad
Tim McInnerny ... Sven the Berserk
John Gordon Sinclair ... Ivar the Boneless
Richard Ridings ... Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Freddie Jones ... Harald the Missionary
Samantha Bond ... Helga
Danny Schiller ... Snorri the Miserable

Not what yo'd call accurate, but funnier than Hell.

Ty N. · (#11)

How much historically accurate information do we have regarding the different cultures that existed in Europe during the Migration Era?

Paul Hansen · (#12)

How much historically accurate information do we have regarding the different cultures that existed in Europe during the Migration Era?

Quite a bit actually. You have the various chronicles on one side (Saxo Grammaticus, Gregory of Tours, Bede, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle etc.) and mythology on the other (Beowulf, the various Viking saga's, German saga's such as the Nibelungenlied, etc.).

Between them, I think you can get a fairly accurate picture. I'm quite exited about that new Beowulf movie that was discussed in the Pub a while ago.

Matt Easton · (#13)

Originally posted by Charles Dooley
The is a British movie about King Alfred from the late '60's that I saw many years ago. I don't remember much about it.

It's... hmmm, I'm not sure how to describe it. It's very late-60's - slightly dreamy, back-lit, fuzzy edges, soft-focus etc. Lots of lying on grassy mounds and contemplating the meaning of life and kingship... Basically very naff and rather hippy. There's an awful lot of dialogue, and not very good dialogue at that, and occasional action scenes, which are actually not badly done. It's definitely worth watching again, as a refresher to the memory, but not something I'd pay more than £2 to have.

I wonder if there aren't some French or German movies about Charlemagne and Roland.

Surprisingly little - the Italians made some good historical epics set around Attila the Hun, the Longobard invasions, the other Barbarian invasions etc etc (there's another one for the list - John Wayne as Attila the Hun!!! horrific....)
However, I did recently become aware of the following very old (1924) German film 'Siegfried' and am curious:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...863794-5602236

Matt

Ty N. · (#14)

Originally posted by Paul Hansen
Quite a bit actually. You have the various chronicles on one side (Saxo Grammaticus, Gregory of Tours, Bede, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle etc.) and mythology on the other (Beowulf, the various Viking saga's, German saga's such as the Nibelungenlied, etc.). Between them, I think you can get a fairly accurate picture. I'm quite exited about that new Beowulf movie that was discussed in the Pub a while ago.

Here's an excerpt from the Miercinga Ríce group:

The first mention of a Germanic tribe is crica 230 BCE when the Basternae migrated to the Black Sea, and came to the attention of Greek chroniclers. From 230 BCE, the Germanic tribes would come in increasing conflict with the Celts, Illyrians, and Romans, eventually swallowing up most of the Celtic and Illyrian territories in Central Europe. This was the beginnings of the Migration Era which lasted from about 375 BCE to 550 CE (although the Viking expeditions should be counted as a part of this as well), an era when nearly every Germanic tribe was actively on the move. Over population and a need for new farm lands sent the Germanic tribes in search of new lands.

The invasion of Great Britain by the Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Frisians, and other Germanic tribes were amongst the last of the Great Migration. In the fifth century, an exodus of tribes took place to Great Britain. The Angles invaded Britain from the area of Schleswig-Holstein, and are mentioned by Tacitus in his writing Germania. The Jutes appear to have come from Jutland and the area near the mouth of the river Rhine. The Saxons, by this time had covered a wide area, but invaded Britain from what is now primarily Northern Germany. The Saxons were not just one tribe, but a confederation of smaller ones, and are not even mentioned by the Roman chroniclers until the second century when Ptolemy placed them in the area of the Elbe River (an area once held by the Cimbri).

Source URL: http://www.ealdriht.org/history.html

Hugh Fuller · (#15)

Ty, not only do you have what Paul wrote, but you have considerable archeological work to indicate life-styles. For instance, I am currently reading the recently released update of Gale R. Owen-Crocker's Dress in Anglo-Saxon England which I just received. It is a very detailed discussion of the evolution of Anglo-Saxon dressf from the 5th Century through the 11th Century, complese with all sorts of commentary about recent archeological work as well as the study of ancient manuscripts and carvings. Grave robbing has provided us incredible amounts of information regarding ancient life-styles. We learn more almost each day, it seems at times.

David K. Wilson · (#16)

Originally posted by Matt Easton
(there's another one for the list - John Wayne as Attila the Hun!!! horrific....)

Nope... you're thinking of The Conqueror, which did indeed star John Wayne -- as Ghengiz Khan (not Attila)! Since it's Ghengiz it's technically outside of the "Dark Ages".

But you did get the "horrific" part right.... this was a bad, bad, bad, bad movie (and I like John Wayne, when he's playing an American in a Western, War or Cop movie). The dialogue is so stupendously ridiculous it's funny. It was financed by one Howard Hughes, who loved to watch it over and over again in his private home theater, despite it's failure at the box office (he was also at that time addicted to heroin). Another interesting note, it was filmed in New Mexico (yeah, NM is a great stand-in for the Eurasian steppes) near where many recent Nuclear Weapons tests had taken place. The entire cast eventually succumbed to cancer, including the Duke himself...

Niklas Peterson · (#17)

Richard Tyson as military and political genius Genghis Khan (2004)!!! With Charlton Heston promoting Christianity in Mongolia, and also promoting Tang-style moustaches!

The trailer is an immesurable source of hilarity.
http://www.madisonmotionpicturesgrou...ilergengis.htm

Shot in 1992, it's actually on its way towards being released by the producers. Any year now... (Duke Nukem Forever, anyone?)
Directed by the man behind "The Longest Day".

Swords? Well I think I saw some strips of iron ore strapped with dog pelt in one end, I guess they could be used to hurt someone, if he/she/it stood very still.

Paul Hansen · (#18)

Ty, IMO, your source is rather creatively interpreting the past to fit their own worldview/agenda (being Heathen).

The Greek accounts of the Germanics (from the travels of Pytheas of Massilia) were not preserved, only a few fragmented quotes from other Greek authors survive.
http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/d...y/pytheas.html

This makes the first reliable description of the Germanics from Roman accounts of the war with Cimbri and Teutons (113 to 101 BC).
http://www.unrv.com/empire/cimbri-teutons.php
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_..._4/Europe.html

One could assume that other Germanic tribes were also wandering in different directions. But there is no real proof either way. Even the scale of the wanderings of the Cimbri and the Teutons is disputed, as Roman accounts sometimes tend to enhance the strength of the enemy to make the victorious consul look better.

Generally, the Migration Era is set from the collapse of the Roman limes along the Rhine coupled with the invasion of the Huns, to Charlemagne establishing his empire and thereby introducing feudalism in most of Europe. The largest documented Germanic migrations took place in that period.

Ty N. · (#19)

Since no one living today bore witness to the events of the Migration Era, and historical writings tend to reflect the perspectives and prejudices of various individuals, and archeological evidence is constantly open to re-interpretation and debate, I don't think anyone can say with absolute authority that they have a clear picture of how extinct cultures existed.

Hugh Fuller · (#20)

Originally posted by Ty N.
Since no one living today bore witness to the events of the Migration Era, and historical writings tend to reflect the perspectives and prejudices of various individuals, and archeological evidence is constantly open to re-interpretation and debate, I don't think anyone can say with absolute authority that they have a clear picture of how extinct cultures existed.

So what point are you trying to make, Ty, or am I just being obtuse?

Ty N. · (#21)

Originally posted by Hugh Fuller
So what point are you trying to make, Ty, or am I just being obtuse?

The latter...

Adlai Stein · (#22)

The best Viking flick I ever saw was Hrafninn flýgur (Revenge of the Barbarians.) This was made in Iceland with an Icelandic cast and except for the silly primitive looking knives is dead on.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087432/

I also really liked Flesh & Blood, which played at every SCA post revel I went to for many years this flick stars Rutger Hauer & a very hot and often naked Jennifer Jason Leigh.

Niklas Peterson · (#23)

Hrafninn flýgur means "the raven flies" ("Korpen Flyger" in swedish), who the hell translated it into "revenge of the barbarians"?
The movie is very popular in Sweden, I actually bought the DVD for my brother this christmas.

The funniest point would be when the main character draws a blade from a leather scabbard on his wrist, and it makes a metal "schwiing"-sound.

Adlai Stein · (#24)

I would love to get my hands on a copy. It's not avalable here in the US.

John Maddox Roberts · (#25)

It has been available in the states. A few years ago I rented it in a video store in Clintwood, VA, way up in the appalachians and about as remote as you can get. The title was indeed "Revenge of the Barbarians." The costuming and landscape were quite accurate (it was filmed in Iceland) and I agree, the throwing knives sucked. The story, it should be said, was another riff on "Fistful of Dollars" which was based on "Yojimbo" which was in turn based on Dashiell Hammett's novel "Red Harvest." Talk about a story that's been around! One character wears a Vendel XIV helmet, but it looks like it's made out of leather. It features a hall-burning that's right out of the sagas except for the aforesaid thrown knives.