all steel spear fom india for comment

[Stefan Gerh]

hi all,
i bought for some years these all steel spear at an gun show. i know nothing over these item. the lenght over all is 125cm, the blade lenght is 23 cm. i think it is an horseman spear. the tip is swollen for mail braiking. who can tell me something more over the age and the history from these weapon?

[rand milam]

Hi Stefan,

Have always called this type of spear a jarid. From the shape of the spearhead and style of decoration your spear looks to be form India. Would estimate it period of manufacure to be
18th-19th century.

Looks like the type of weapon you could thrust, throw or parry with. Have never seen how this type of arm was carried.

You sometimetimes see the small javelins in a quiver of three.

rand

[rand milam]

"Immediately after crossing, the Muslims formed themselves into battle formation and faced the Persian hosts. The Persian army had with them a large number of war elephants. Each elephant carried a howdah in which sat soldiers armed with javelins and bows. To each howdah branches of palm trees were tied to give the illusion of size. Bells were tied round the neck of the elephants, and these appeared to produce an unearthly din. "

The above is an exert from "The Battle of Qadisiyya",

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/A...al_khattab.htm


rand

[Thomas Powers]

That's a translation of the original; how good is unknown; there is always the possibility that the original term could be something else....

Thomas

[rand milam]

In Arms and Armor of the Muslim World by Dr Haider he mentions a type of spear called a
Khisht Neza, Sainthi or Barchhi,

Page 243

Quote

'It was also called a barchhi by the Rajputs. Carried down rom the Sultanate period it was defined as a dart, a javelin or a short spear. Made wholly of steel with a velvet covered grip, the total length was 2'7" to 3', of which the head was 6 & 3/4". A pair of these was carried encased by the side of a saddle ready to be thrown at a foe when required."

As usual for Indian arms you will find many varients of these, pairs are much harder to find and a pair with the quiver even more scarce.

Would seem likely the all steel sainthi better for penetrating armor(chain mail) because of the great weight than a steel tipped wood javelin. It al can be used for lethal thrusting in close contact.

These are also used in hunting and there are accounts of how it wounded tigers.

rand

[rand milam]

Just noticed your spear is 125 cm, too long to be considered a sainthi which I think of as a dart-like javelin. Where as yours is more a true javelin length and less likely to have been made as a set or pair as the sainthi's were often done.

rand

[Dmitry Z~G]

1 m 25 cm is a tad bit long for a Djerid, but it's not a regulation weapon, so variations are permissible. Theones I've seen [and they're rare as hen's teeth] have narrower point than yours.
Mostly used as hunting weapon, according to Stone's Glossary. Here's what mine looks like.

[rand milam]

Here are two more examples of all steel spears.

One is a fine khora khorassan wootz with silver inlaid into occlussions, no decoration and pristine condition, got it form Leo Fiegel.

The other aslo form Leo's collection has a hand guard, the shaft is completely covered with gold and silver sheet overlay.

rand

[rand milam]

Gold and silver Sainthi and khora khorassan wootz jarid....

[rand milam]

Sainthi Pic

[rand milam]

Jarid Photo's

[rand milam]

Demetry,

Nice steel spear you have, love the grooves cut into the haft, they provide decoration and also serve a function of making grip better.

Reguarding points of spears, the small four sided point indicates use against armor as it would have an increased ability to penetrate chain mail.

The larger spear heads, though also able to be used in combat, would serve a function for hunting. There is a reference for a leaf shaped spearhead being used for hunting in Haiders book.

The shape of the spearhead for function is a good question as it may distinguish between hunting and warefare use, am sure there would be cross over areas. Size may be a factor, the small, all steel javelin dart under three feet in overall length definately was part of a warriors arsenal, carried in a quiver usually holding two sainthi's horizontal on horseback between a riders leg and the horse. Similat to how the Polish carried their long estoc on cavalry.

rand

[rand milam]

Hey Stephan,

Its interesting on you spear how the bulbous nodule appears closer to the rear of the javelin, would have expected it to be at a place of balance to aid in gripping while throwing. Do you have an overall photo you can post?

The haft appears to be a type of pattern weld, you can see a spiral design ascending the haft. If the haft is uniform shape it may have been meant to display the design. Another possiblity is velvet over the haft to serve as a gripping surface and add to the beauty of the spear.

The spear head definately looks to have been well made with raised areas on the cutting edge.

rand

[Dmitry Z~G]

Originally Posted by rand milam

Demetry,

Nice steel spear you have, love the grooves cut into the haft, they provide decoration and also serve a function of making grip better.

rand

Rand,
I forgot to mention that my jarid has a small hard object, perhaps a lead shot that freely rolls inside the hollow shaft of the weapon, maybe adding more momentum when thrown.

[rand milam]

Hey Demetry,

Believe Elgood mentions a diamond being put in the haft of hollow 15th century Mameluke steel axe handles as a Talismanic device.

This type of talismanique belief is possible to also be used with your javelin.

Would assume the diamond fragment used to be of little commercial value but of talismanic value only.

Have had a 15th century Mameluke axe and there was indeed something inside the haft that made a non metallic high pitched sound when the axe was raised or lowered.

rand

[Dmitry Z~G]

That's very interesting. The feel of the object inside the jarid's shaft is indeed like it's not round, but feels like a pebble, and obviously is too light to affect any momentum significantly.

[rand milam]

Here is a Pair of all steel sainthi, gold and silver koftgari, four sided square armor piercing points, 2' 8" long, possible the hafts were originally covered with velvet for better gripping. Handles covered with a silver sheet overlay. Would estimate 19th century time period.

rand

[rand milam]

Originally Posted by Dmitry Z~G

1 m 25 cm is a tad bit long for a Djerid, but it's not a regulation weapon, so variations are permissible. Theones I've seen [and they're rare as hen's teeth] have narrower point than yours.
Mostly used as hunting weapon, according to Stone's Glossary. Here's what mine looks like.

Nice Javelin Demitri,

With the small four sided spear head drawing to a point it seems to be armor piercing that would easily penetrate chain mail. Noticed its the same shape head as on the smaller all steel darts (sainthi) posted in this thread.

rand