Lowdown on UC Replicas

[Chris H.]

I agree strongly (as peviously stated, however interpreted.)

Originally posted by Robert B. Marks


I'm sorry, but I'm rather puzzled by this statement. Are you referring to the basic design that UC is using, or Peter Lyon and John Howe?

The reason I'm quite puzzled is that everything I've read, including the interview with Howe and Lyon, suggests that the hero swords, the ones that were forged out of carbon steel, were functional swords in every way. The only thing they weren't was sharpened. If this is the case, then by definition it is possible to make functional replicas.

(Of course, if you don't put the same care and skill that Peter Lyon did into the blades, you'll come out with some rather horrible results, but that's the same for historical replicas too.)

Another reason I ask is that I've noticed that pretty much all of the hero swords (with the exception of Glamdring) are essentially historical blades with stylized hilts. Narsil is a 13th century war sword, Strider's sword is a 15th century knightly sword, Boromir has a late Medieval single hander, etc.

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

[Patrick Kelly]

No Robert, I don't think you're puzzled anymore than anyone else in this convoluted thread happens to be.

Have I not previously explained the difference between *physical* balance and *mechanical* balance ?

No one seems to be accepting the fact that simply because a sword feels pleasant to swing around it doesn't neccesarily mean that it is balanced properly from a mechanical standpoint. Once again, this is not a criticism of Peter Lyon or John Howe. These swords may have been enjoyable to swing around but do you really think that with so many props to make that they took the time to worry about harmonics and etc. ? Then again they didn't need to. This is just a M-O-V-I-E for Petes sake not a arms documentary.

I don't care what the blades look like on Glamdring, Narsil or whatever. Have I not explained the balance/mass relationship neccesary between pommel/blade/guard etc. ? No disrespect intended Robert but try getting out of the SciFi Con. and into the museum a bit more. handle *real* swords not Hollywood contrivances and these relationships will be apparent. Ever ask yourself why an historic example of a sword like Glamdring doesn't exist ? Maybe you should.

Chris, you don't get it simply because you choose not to. I can make all of the explanations in the world but you folks seem hell bent on turning your fantasy into reality, so be it. My best advice is for all of you to go out and spend your hard earned money on copies of these swords. After you've made you fantasy become real I would then suggest that you find the nearest, and largest tree available. Chop that tree down with your reality. Afterall, these things are made by elves and such right ? They shoiuld be able to handle it.

This is my last word on the matter.

[Angus Trim]

I'm an old fan of "Lord of the Rings"..... I was a fan before many of the folks on this thread were born.........

So of course I watched the movie..... and became quite enamored with several of the swords.......

But as CF and I began looking at things, I had to change the appearance of several of them in order to make things function like a real historical sword would function....

Lets take the "Ranger". Does it look like the movie sword that much? Of course not, but the CF sword is easily wieldable one handed, and cuts like a dream.........

The next sword I wanted to make was the Boromir sword. Now, just so we're all on the same page, I won't make a sword, and market it, unless its "right". That's for other manufacturers, not the Auld Dawg...... my swords work, period........

Well, I could do the blade to the Boromir sword ok, but the hilt would need a drastic change. The grip is too long for a sword of that type, and in order to bring it in to the "specs" harmonically that I work with, the grip would have to be shortened a great deal. By the time I was done making it "Functional", then it probably wouldn't look enough like the movie sword to make if marketable......

The Glamdring..... I didn't have the right kind of experience to make a long waisted blade like that harmonic. Today I do, and it would need a serious amount of distal taper, and once again, the hilt would need a drastic change to make the thing as functional as I would deem necessary to make it what I consider a "sword", and not a sword look alike......

Now there's some folks that think I'm kinda extreme when it comes to the "mechanical" aspect of a sword. But when it comes to this, I think you're going to find that I'm generally in the same school of thought that the best smiths are. Movies show things that just won't work in the real world...... And as much as I like Fantasy, I won't take my swords out of the Realm of Reality.

They're still going to have to work...... And the LOTR swords may be the fantasy movie swords we've seen in a long time, but some of them don't really translate to "functional" without a lot of rework.........

Auld Dawg

[Robert B. Marks]

Originally posted by Patrick Kelly
No Robert, I don't think you're puzzled anymore than anyone else in this convoluted thread happens to be.

Have I not previously explained the difference between *physical* balance and *mechanical* balance ?

No one seems to be accepting the fact that simply because a sword feels pleasant to swing around it doesn't neccesarily mean that it is balanced properly from a mechanical standpoint. Once again, this is not a criticism of Peter Lyon or John Howe. These swords may have been enjoyable to swing around but do you really think that with so many props to make that they took the time to worry about harmonics and etc. ? Then again they didn't need to. This is just a M-O-V-I-E for Petes sake not a arms documentary.

I don't care what the blades look like on Glamdring, Narsil or whatever. Have I not explained the balance/mass relationship neccesary between pommel/blade/guard etc. ? No disrespect intended Robert but try getting out of the SciFi Con. and into the museum a bit more. handle *real* swords not Hollywood contrivances and these relationships will be apparent. Ever ask yourself why an historic example of a sword like Glamdring doesn't exist ? Maybe you should.

You've made some dangerous, and incorrect, assumptions here.

First of all, I've handled more antiques than I have replicas. For that matter, I think the count is that I've handled around 20 antiques in a museum, and around 15 replicas. I may not have a smith's knowledge of making the swords, but I certainly know how a 14th or 15th century sword handles and balances; I've held at least two of them, probably more.

Secondly, one thing that was very clear from the interview with John Howe and Peter Lyon was that they were trying to make functional swords...that is one of the things that sets Lord of the Rings aside from any other fantasy film. Every single prop was a labor of love, and the fact that Lyon used 15th century techniques to create the hero swords speaks volumes. I know John Howe, and I know his background with swords. The man may not be a smith, but he knows what he's doing. For that matter, his level of knowledge is probably greater than most of the people on this forum.

(And, by the way, stage swords have to actually endure more punishment then their real-life counterparts did. And among other things, Viggo Mortensen used the steel sword for the most part, not the aluminum stunt sword. They had to be able to stand up to use.)

Now, let me ask you this, Mr. Kelly: have you ever HANDLED the actual swords of which you are speaking? Have you handled the original Narsil hero sword? Have you handled Glamdring? And if not, how in heaven's name can you POSSIBLY know how they are balanced? A two-dimensional picture is not the same as a three dimensional sword. And while what you say about the difference between harmonic balance and mechanical balance is certainly true, part of it also depends on the materials being used for the various parts of the fittings. I don't think that there is any way that the materials used by UC bear more than a passing resemblence to the materials used by Peter Lyon.

And...as what suddenly occurs to me is a REALLY good general question...why haven't any of us actually ASKED Peter Lyon how the original hero swords handled and balanced? Surely HE would know.

Now, I don't deny that these aren't historical swords. However, there is a difference between historical and functional. They do seem, at least to me, to be very strongly derived from historical swords, however. It raises another question - should a fantasy sword be forced to handle like a historical sword in order to be functional?

(It's a really tricky question too...obviously, one of those ridiculous 10 pound claymores with the lightning bolt quillons and a skull as a chape is right out of the question, but what about subtle differences? It seems to me that fantasy swords should meet the same criteria as any modern sword: that it functions for what it is meant to do. For example, if a fantasy sword is meant to be a cutter, should not the requirement that it should have a proper edge geometry, proper balance, and actually be able to cut with speed override the sword having to match a specific historical example?)

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

[Robert B. Marks]

Hi all,

Having realized the incongruity of speculating about how the hero sword props from LotR handled without actually asking the person who made them, I've just contacted Peter Lyon and asked if the hero swords did have the proper harmonic and mechanical balance.

So, hopefully he'll either post something in the thread, or get back via private message, and settle this thing once and for all.

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

[Chris H.]

Originally posted by Patrick Kelly
This is my last word on the matter.

Thank you, Patrick. Although I must say I think those remarks to Robert were about as rude as my previous comments to you allegedly were.

But anyway, I think all of us are dreadfully dredged in misconceptions about the word "functional." "Functional" for a medieval blacksmith and "functional" for Angus Trim mean two different things. As someone said on some other thread, harmonic balance is something only incorporated into sword making in recent years; indeed, chances are the medival bladesmiths knew very little about it. To compare modern swords like Angus Trim's to the work of a typical medieval swordsmith is like comparing anything from our time to anything of their time- they may look the same, but are really worlds apart.

Yes, I do not doubt that the LOTR swords might have to be changed significantly to meet up to Angus Trim's standards; but I think the same would apply to many medieval swords as they stood. To therefore say that they were not functional is, to use a rather extreme example, like saying that the horse and buggy weren't functional: sure they were, just not compared to a Porshe. The fact that the Porshe exists may overshadow the functionality of the horse and buggy, but it surely does not discount is, especially in a historical context. I agree with Robert that the LOTR, or Peter Lyons swords, are quite realistic in a pseudo- historical, just perhaps not modern, frame of mind.

[EDIT: (After reading Robert Mark's last two posts) But then again, perhaps the Lyon's swords are better that I am giving them credit for. I am anxious to hear what Mr. Lyons has to say.]

I am open to correction (just not from Patrick Kelly); I may be wrong, as always. Just a disclaimer.

[Robert B. Marks]

Originally posted by Chris H.
But anyway, I think all of us are dreadfully dredged in misconceptions about the word "functional." "Functional" for a medieval blacksmith and "functional" for Angus Trim mean two different things. As someone said on some other thread, harmonic balance is something only incorporated into sword making in recent years; indeed, chances are the medival bladesmiths knew very little about it. To compare modern swords like Angus Trim's to the work of a typical medieval swordsmith is like comparing anything from our time to anything of their time- they may look the same, but are really worlds apart.

I'm afraid I've really got to doubt the idea of a Medieval smith being ignorant of harmonic balance. It seems to me that it would be something that the bladesmith would have to know, especially since his clientele would be depending on his product for their very lives.

(And, come to think of it, it's pretty hard to miss a sword vibrating like a tuning fork after hitting something...)

That's why the first thing I do before designing sword specs (I've designed four swords that are just waiting to be made, and helped fine-tune one) is hit the books, and find out what the swordsmiths were doing in the Middle Ages. I figure they had to know much more about the craft than we ever will.

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

[Chris H.]

Originally posted by Robert B. Marks


I'm afraid I've really got to doubt the idea of a Medieval smith being ignorant of harmonic balance. It seems to me that it would be something that the bladesmith would have to know, especially since his clientele would be depending on his product for their very lives.

(And, come to think of it, it's pretty hard to miss a sword vibrating like a tuning fork after hitting something...)

That's why the first thing I do before designing sword specs (I've designed four swords that are just waiting to be made, and helped fine-tune one) is hit the books, and find out what the swordsmiths were doing in the Middle Ages. I figure they had to know much more about the craft than we ever will.

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

Oh. Well, there you go. Thanks.

[Hans Mann]

Don't worry Chris H., we're not all experts But you have to admit, people using swords to protect their lives would be pretty cautious...

Thank you Robert B. Marks for giving us some hope. All this talk explaining why the LOTR designs would not work has been ( quite valid in cases) but a bit of a downer - but as you've pointed out (backed with own knowledge) when all this copyright/contract mess dies out a functional line of swords could be builts - maybe by Peter Lyon himself (who says on his website he legally cannot).

Narsil looks too functional to be fantasy!!!

[Robert B. Marks]

Originally posted by Hans Mann
Thank you Robert B. Marks for giving us some hope. All this talk explaining why the LOTR designs would not work has been ( quite valid in cases) but a bit of a downer - but as you've pointed out (backed with own knowledge) when all this copyright/contract mess dies out a functional line of swords could be builts - maybe by Peter Lyon himself (who says on his website he legally cannot).

Huh?

Are you sure you're talking about me here? I can't recall mentioning contracts or future swords in this thread...

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

[Chris H.]

Originally posted by Hans Mann
But you have to admit, people using swords to protect their lives would be pretty cautious...

Of course. But I think my point was this: an archer using a bow to protect his life in the 15th C still used a wooden bow "primitive" by modern standards. I guess the same could apply to swords, although apparantly it does not, at least as far as harmonic balance goes. Still, building upon my ATrim comparision two posts ago, there's more to modern swords than harmonic balance. I still think many mediaval swords might have to be changed significantly to meet up to certain modern standards, like those of Angus Trim. Am I right, anybody...?

[Angus Trim]

I don't have as many antiques under my belt as say, Peter Johnsson, or Craig Johnsson, But I have handled and measured a few. I also have managed to acquire measurements from several other medieval swords and earlier swords from several of my acquaintances, either scholars or smiths.....

The majority of antiques I have seen are harmonically balanced. The majority of them have very sharp edge geometries. The majority of them..... well....

Lets just say that the blade and edge geometries that I use, I use because of my study of antiques. The harmonic balance theories I use, I use because my study of antiques verify them.....

Sure there were some clunkers in the past. We have clunkers today.....

But I think that the only real advantage smiths, makers, and fabricators have today over the smiths " in period" is the metallurgy we have today. The choice of quality steels, and the better tools for hardening and tempering........ and the tools we work with, which can get the job done quicker.

Even here though, we see some real interesting antiques. Swords that have good steel, and temper close to what we're doing now........

Don't underestimate the medieval smith...........

[Chris H.]

Originally posted by Angus Trim
I don't have as many antiques under my belt as say, Peter Johnsson, or Craig Johnsson, But I have handled and measured a few. I also have managed to acquire measurements from several other medieval swords and earlier swords from several of my acquaintances, either scholars or smiths.....

The majority of antiques I have seen are harmonically balanced. The majority of them have very sharp edge geometries. The majority of them..... well....

Lets just say that the blade and edge geometries that I use, I use because of my study of antiques. The harmonic balance theories I use, I use because my study of antiques verify them.....

Sure there were some clunkers in the past. We have clunkers today.....

But I think that the only real advantage smiths, makers, and fabricators have today over the smiths " in period" is the metallurgy we have today. The choice of quality steels, and the better tools for hardening and tempering........ and the tools we work with, which can get the job done quicker.

Even here though, we see some real interesting antiques. Swords that have good steel, and temper close to what we're doing now........

Don't underestimate the medieval smith...........

Thank you, that makes sense.

Although speaking of your swords specifically, they are obviously in a class of their own as far as weight goes. To take a sword that might be balanced, both in "feel" and harmonics, but heavier than yours, and put one of your blades on it, I can see how you would have to change the sword significantly to then make it balanced.

But is there a possibility that other swords, like the Peter Lyon's LOTR swords, might be balanced in their own right, just heavier than swords like yours? As we figured out on page 1 of this thread, the FotR sword originals weighed between 3.96 and 5.5 lbs - not bizarrely heavy yet.

[Angus Trim]

Originally posted by Chris H.


But is there a possibility that other swords, like the Peter Lyon's LOTR swords, might be balanced in their own right, just heavier than swords like yours? As we figured out on page 1 of this thread, the FotR sword originals weighed between 3.96 and 5.5 lbs - not bizarrely heavy yet.

Certainly, that's quite possible. But I believe the original point of this was a question about UC's stainless copies.........

[Chris H.]

Originally posted by Angus Trim


Certainly, that's quite possible. But I believe the original point of this was a question about UC's stainless copies.........

Although doesn't it follow that even if the originals were made in heaven, the UC replica's would hardly be so?

[Peter Lyon]

Originally posted by Robert B. Marks
Hi all,

Having realized the incongruity of speculating about how the hero sword props from LotR handled without actually asking the person who made them, I've just contacted Peter Lyon and asked if the hero swords did have the proper harmonic and mechanical balance.

So, hopefully he'll either post something in the thread, or get back via private message, and settle this thing once and for all.

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks

Hi guys

At the risk of interrupting this very interesting thread, I guess its time I tried to answer a few of the questions that have been popping up and cycling around. I've tried to keep out of this, as I'm always nervous about making statements without New Line permission (the bottom line is they own the property and control anything that is deemed "publicity"). So I'd appreciate it if we can keep this "in-house". My perspective on things is also partly coloured by my interest in the sword as an historical study. The following will be a bit piecemeal but hopefully not too confusing.

Its important not to confuse the UC replicas with the film swords as they have different aims in mind. The film swords were made to be "functional" even though they were not to be used in the fight sequences but kept pristine for the closeups. I'll go more into that shortly. The UC swords are wallhangers that look very similar to the film swords (some changes have been made presumably to ease manufacturing). The hilts are cast metal, possibly zinc, so are too light, and the blades are heavier than the originals so there is no point using them for comparisons on balance and harmonics.

All the film s were made with a thick edge, about 1/16" thick, for safety, then bevels ground to give the "flash" of a sharp edge while still not making it sharp. Hence all the blades, and by inference the hilts and overall swords, are about 20% heavier than sharp ones would need to be. In this sense, however well balanced the film swords were, they will never be "real" swords.

Despite this the weights still came out reasonable. Glamdring was 4 pounds and 48" long, Narsil was 5 and 56". Swords such as Aragorn's ranger sword and Faramir's sword, which look a lot like late medieval swords, were about 3 pounds in weight. With sharp edges and proportionately lighter hilts, they would fit right in with European swords of the same types. Please note these swords weren't meant to be based on particular European swords, quite the opposite, but the need for practicality continually drew the designs back towards historical patterns. The reality is, that anything that can work, has been used at some time in history.

My aim on one handed, and hand and a half swords, is to get the balance about 4" along the blade, and 4-6" for two handers. I achieved this on all the swords.

Harmonics was not forgotten. My approach, which I believe is similar to what medieval smiths would have used, is based on experience rather than mathematical science. As the pieces are coming together I start testing by putting then together; while loosely holding the grip I hold the sword horizontal and strike the flat of the blade with my other hand and watch the vibrations. Do they dampen quickly? Is the pommel too heavy and keeping the wave going? Is the blade stiff enough that I can remove more weight? There were some restrictions with the LOTR swords as some of the design requirements were very specific, but it was possible to tinker with the variables enough without changing the overall appearance. Angus, and others that computer mill components to exact tolerances, you start by making trial pieces to refine the design before large scale production, so at the end of it you have some imperfect but still usable swords. Isn't this also the way it would have been in the middle ages? Even master swordsmiths had to start somewhere, and must at some point have made swords that were still functional but not great, and still sold them to make a living. Every sword was effectively a one-off so even two swords that looked identical would have slight differences in their behaviours. There is also evidence that many smiths specialised in a "type" and became very proficient in that type, rather than go through the learning process on every new order that was different, or every change in fashion.

Glamdring will always be the most awkward sword to get working properly due to the long leaf blade. Even though the weight and balance worked out, the harmonics cannot be as good as a tapered straight blade, due to the weight being, on average, distributed further from the centre of balance. But within those limitations I got it working pretty well by grinding the blade thinner at the broad part of the leaf (extra thickness there would just make it stiffer where it doesn't need it and the extra weight would produce more droop when held horizontally). I regard leaf blades more as cutters than thrusters anyway, since there is more metal behind the sweet spot.

I actually did have time to "tune" each sword, and the actors appreciated it. This is one of those psychological things that are difficult to appreciate if you don't see the inside of the film industry. Actor performance is everything on set. You don't know if the actor was having a bad day, or was too tired or whatever, only that their performance in that scene is "flat" or whatever. Carrying a heavy sword all day has an effect too, so making them as light as possible is not just professional pride, it has a practical payoff. All the actors loved the weapons they were given, the work and thought that went into each piece (and that extended to costume, props etc); they were more inclined to wear them at times when they could have worn a lightweight rubber prop, and this helped their performance in a small way. Viggo is a great example of this, he wanted to wear his sword all the time so it became totally natural. It all adds up, and I am just glad we were on a project that allowed this sort of fine tuning. BTW I'm not getting paid to say this

There seems to be some confusion about how hefty the hilts were. Some like Theoden's sword are obviously heavy due to the large bronze castings, but all the others were about the weight of historical pieces. The confusion might be because Glamdring and Narsil have long and bulky looking pommels, but that isn't the same as weight. Narsil is a perfect example, the pommel is long wide and thick, but look closely. Half of it is a stalk, and where it widens out is a huge hole with heavily hollowed edges. Even the outside shaping removes weight. The cross is a hollowed diamond section and comes to two wide points at the centre, but everything there is hollowed. Even the triangular ends have the same hollow, though that is more for appearance than to save the tiny bit of weight. Maybe the lighting in photos makes them look bulkier or something, but they are actually not hefty.

Boromir's sword is a bit hefty - it came out at 4 pounds and Angus' criticism of the hilt is valid, and this is due to the need to have the sword "fit" the character. But then, the blade is almost 3" wide! Its one of those swords that if I wanted to use it myself, I would make the blade a bit narrower, the grip shorter, and the pommel lighter. But then I am not Boromir.

Talking about "real world" swords, has anyone looked at XIV.6 from RMS? It weighs 2.2kg (that's 4.8 pounds folks) and that is definitely a one handed grip! It's beautifully made and gives every appearance of being made to be used rather than just a showpiece, so we need to be careful about judging useability. Here I am talking about swords as they were, and as they were meant to be used. By definition a period sword can't be called "wrong" by applying our modern viewpoints backwards, so maybe we should sometimes stretch our definitions a little. Having said all this, XIV.6 is exceptional and without knowing who it was made for and why, we shouldn't automatically throw out our accepted guidelines.

Hans Mann mentioned about being about a functional line of swords when the copyright issue dies down. Unfortunately that will be a very long way off. I think it is something like 50 years of copyright on books and that may apply to film, and this is a very important property and will be for years to come. I hope too to see sharp carbon steel replicas one day, but that could be a long way off. However it almost certainly will not be from me, as the licensing fees will still be huge, and I prefer making custom swords anyway than mass production.

I agree with Angus about our main advantage today being the quality of materials, but I'd also add the ease of repeatably consistent heat treatment. Many of the medieval swords in existance are shockingly soft, some with Rc of about 40; some with battle damage have had edges rolled or sliced and curled back. Some were outstanding, but the problem was repeatedly getting the same heat treatment, though that often goes to the steel, which could vary even within a blade.

I don't want you to take this as some final word on the subject, but more an injection of information. Everyone has their own viewpoint, and this thread still has a lot of life in it (like a Moebius loop?)

[Josh Powell]

Thanks for coming to comment Mr. Lyon, it's great to be able to actually get a little bit of insight from the horse mouth, so to speak.

josh

Originally posted by Peter Lyon
I don't want you to take this as some final word on the subject, but more an injection of information. Everyone has their own viewpoint, and this thread still has a lot of life in it (like a Moebius loop?)

[Patrick Kelly]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for taking the time to chime in.

Regardless of any mechanical issues concerning these swords I have always enjoyed your work. I certainly have no doubt as to your skill as a swordsmith. I look forward to seeing more of your creations in the upcoming movies.

[Al Massey]

...trying to get that extra-long leafblade to work! I myself don't like making them longer than 30", and feel they work best in the size range they were historically, ie, short swords. As short swords they excel at cutting and thrusting, but taken to longsword length, you start getting tradeoffs. Not the easiest blade shape to forge either be a long shot.
Can't wait to see the second movie now...

[Gabriel Stevens]

How awesome to here from the man himself...god I love this forum. Can't wait to see more on Peter's website.....

[Peter Lyon]

Originally posted by Gabriel Stevens
How awesome to here from the man himself...god I love this forum. Can't wait to see more on Peter's website.....

thanks Gabriel

I'm hoping to update the website a bit more over Christmas. A friend set it up for me, but now I have to learn HTML to keep it up to date.

[Hans Mann]

That was brillaint Peter Lyon, thanks for taking the time to respond here. This forum is great, I think nearly all that could be told about these swords has been said.

Originally posted by Peter Lyon

Hans Mann mentioned about being about a functional line of swords when the copyright issue dies down. Unfortunately that will be a very long way off. I think it is something like 50 years of copyright on books and that may apply to film, and this is a very important property and will be for years to come. I hope too to see sharp carbon steel replicas one day, but that could be a long way off. However it almost certainly will not be from me, as the licensing fees will still be huge, and I prefer making custom swords anyway than mass production.

Damn. 50 years is a while...well, I suppose it all depends on New Line and UC selling the rights to someone willing soon, or something. I can understand why you'd have a hard time making it though - and besides, custom swords are more special... and I suppose you could add tiny LOTR bits to them

[Glenn Sunshine]

Let me add my thanks to both Angus Trim and Peter Lyon. What an absolutely awesome thing to have a forum like this where the best people in the world will answer questions without all the BS and hype you find on so many other sites, where you don't find the real pros anyway. I'll match the quality of Sword Forum and this section of it against anything on the subjects I've seen on the web. Thanks to everyone who've made this site so unique.

Yours,
Glenn

[Chris H.]

Yes, I'll ad my name to the list of those saying "wow, that was great" and "Sword Forum is the best."

And thank you, Mr. Lyons, that was amazing to hear it right from you. I doubt much useless debate could take place after that.

[Joel Whitmore]

Originally posted by Hans Mann
That was brillaint Peter Lyon, thanks for taking the time to respond here. This forum is great, I think nearly all that could be told about these swords has been said.



Damn. 50 years is a while...well, I suppose it all depends on New Line and UC selling the rights to someone willing soon, or something. I can understand why you'd have a hard time making it though - and besides, custom swords are more special... and I suppose you could add tiny LOTR bits to them

Perhaps one can now understand why Albion's movie replicas are so pricey. I don't exactly know how th elicencing works, but from Peter's comments I tend to think that New Line licencing would want some or all of that fee up front. From what I understand by talking to Amy over at Albion, those fees can be staggering. It's rally a shame that New Line will no tcut Peter some slack here. His swords will no be anywhere near the numbers UC is pumping out. Of course I bet that the New Line licencing people know very little about swords, so they don't care if the sword is well-made or not (I guess the liability is all on the maker).

Thanks again Peter for responding to this thread. We are actually starting to spell your name correctly on here On a personal note...what does yor backlog looklike ?