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Armour from the Battle of Wisby 1361 -
04-24-2002, 07:58 PM
Just got my copy of Chivalry Sports and in it is a book called "The Armour from the Batlle of Wisby 1361" by Bengt Thordeman ( God Svenska Pojke). $99.95 664 pages
It is a new edition that combines the two original volumes first published in 1939.
I am feeling this is a must for me to get no matter what the cost.
I am familiar with the archeological finds on Gotland, but really do not know the details.
Is anyone out there familiar with these books?
Hey Björn.....are you out there...?
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05-01-2002, 07:41 AM
I did my degree dissertation based on Thordeman's books
Most of the recent publications on armour have pretty much repeated what Thordeman wrote in 1939, but missed so much of the subtelty and all the detail.
There is only one decent modern work on the coat-of-plates in my view, and that's an excavation report from Prussia (I'd have to dig out the referrences as I have no idea where they are right now).
Thordeman's books are a must-have for any student of medieval armour, eastern or western.
The armour was all found at a site where the Battle of Visby was fought between the local Swedish Gotlanders and the Royal Danish army (with German merceneries) in 1361. The Danish army was victorious, and in the 1930's many grave-pits were discovered littered with skeletons, some of which had coats of plates and maille on them, and some of the armour had been thrown into the pits separately. There are also coat-of-plate constructed gauntlets. Amongst the dead, were men and women of all ages and states of health.
The books contain a full excavation report, as well as some of the history, and a large section investigating the development of the coat-of-plates. Also there are scale drawings of all the armours.
Matt
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05-01-2002, 12:43 PM
Thanx for your input,
I have already ordered the book and will most likely receive it in a couple of days...
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Found this link -
05-01-2002, 08:02 PM
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The Battle of Visby -
05-15-2002, 11:31 PM
Here's a short piece I wrote three years ago. Please note that one of the most misunderstood features of Thordeman's books is the forensic analysis. The bones were excavated and stored according to a grid system (all bones in a certain grid square were put in a box, instead of taking care of the individual skeletons). This had the consequence that the "forensic" analysis became flawed; there's no evidence that the "feint high - cut low" (and vice versa) technique was used in combat, going just by the recorded damage alone.
The Battle of Visby, 1361
By Björn Hellqvist
Introduction
The Battle of Visby 1361 would probably be an obscure engagement, if it hadn't been for the unique finds made on the field of battle over 500 years later. During excavations of the mass-graves in the 1920's, finds of major importance were made. Hundreds of skeletons - the remains of the hapless peasant militia - were found, together with mail shirts, coifs and 24 coats-of-plates. The finds gave important insights into the reality of Medieval warfare, as well as some extremely important discoveries of the development of transitional armor of the 14th century. So, what happened and why?
Background
The island of Gotland lies in the Baltic Sea, off the coast of Sweden. It was an important and well-situated link in the Baltic trade, and the city of Visby was a flourishing member of the Hanseatic League, the powerful medieval association of trading cities. The farmers of Gotland were wealthy, and not the stereotypical downtrodden peasants. The city and the farmers were at odds, though, and a civil war had been fought in 1288, a result from fights over trading rights and the erection of the 3-mile city wall. Gotland was a part of the Kingdom of Sweden, but it was pretty independent and could be considered an autonomous farmers republic, while the city of Visby was under the rule of the king of Sweden. The king was at the time of the battle Magnus Eriksson, whose kingdom was weakened after the Plague a dozen years earlier, from internal strife within the royal family, and from a debt-ridden economy. Meanwhile, the king of Denmark, Valdemar Atterdag, was on the rise. Denmark had suffered heavily from rebellions earlier in the century, where large parts of the kingdom had been gobbled up by German princes, and where the province of Scania (the southern part of modern-day Sweden) had been sold to Sweden. King Valdemar was set on restoring his kingdom, and he mounted several successful campaigns, one of which targeted a certain rich island in the Baltic…
The Battle
The Danish fleet approached Gotland from the south, having first attacked Öland, another Swedish island. The Danes landed on the western coast of Gotland on the 22nd of July, 1361. The force consisted of Danish knights and German mercenaries. King Valdemar started the march northwards to Visby. The Danes were met by the peasant militia shortly afterwards, but beat them easily. Another battle took place in Fjäle Marsh a few days later, which ended in another defeat for the Gotlanders. The farmers of Gotland were no pitchfork-wielding bumpkins. Every farmer was obliged by law to own mail-shirt, coif, helmet, shield, sword or axe, spear and bow or crossbow. Some of the equipment was probably worn and obsolete, having been passed down for generations, while arms like bows, crossbows and spears were mostly intoned for hunting. What they also lacked was training, especially against a professional, mounted force assisted by mercenaries. The two defeats must have sorely depleted the Gotlanders of men and arms, and morale must have been strained. Still, the force was probably reinforced by peasants from the north and east. Many of those were probably poorly armed, as every able man went forth to save the island. They fought for their independence, but bravery couldn't outweigh superior strength. The remaining Gotlanders retreated towards Visby, which was protected by the 30' wall. It is said that they pleaded for help from the city, or at least to be let in, but the burghers turned them down. The Gotlanders couldn't do anything apart from making a final stand. On the 27th of July, the farmers formed up just east of the city, on a field that came to be known as "Korsbetingen" ("the Cross Meadow"). It was a hot summer day. The Danes arrived soon afterwards and attacked with the same ruthlessness they had displayed in the earlier engagements. The farmers, maybe numbering a bit over 2,000 strong, had teen-agers and old men in their ranks, as well as some cripples and maybe even a few women. The skeletons found in the graves speak their own tales. First, there was a hailstorm of arrows and crossbow-bolts. The losses must have been significant; the powerful weapons of the attackers had greater range than the peasants' weapons. Then the Danish knights and footsoldiers fell on them. The skulls and bones found show how faces were cut open, arms and legs lopped off, heads crushed… One peasant got both his shinbones cut off by a single powerful cut. Despite their desperate bravery, the Gotlanders were doomed. 1,800 of them fell that day in July while the townspeople watched on from the walls. Not resting on his victory, King Valdemar issued an ultimatum to the burghers - yield the city, or it will be razed. The burghers didn't want to lose their lives, so they gave in. A part of the city wall was torn down, and King Valdemar rode in triumph through the breach at the head of his forces. In less than a week, he had conquered the richest island in the Baltic. Outside the walls, a few surviving Gotlanders slipped away, while the Danes celebrated.
The Aftermath
King Valdemar levied a tax on the city, and the burghers were content - riches can be regained, but not lives. The king spent a month on the island before setting sail for Denmark. The dead was buried in at least five mass-graves. The hot weather had made a quick burial a necessity before putrefaction set in, increasing the risk for disease. Gotlanders and the few Danish dead were tossed into the same graves. The bodies must have been swollen, as many bodies were dumped together with their body-armor on. The excavations unearthed small glimpses from that fateful day. The customary plundering of the corpses was incomplete; a purse full of silver pennies was found by the archaeologists. The bones bore witness of the cruelty of war; a skull was pierced by three crossbow bolts fired from behind. Maybe some injured peasant was propped up for some target practice… One of the coats-of-plates bore small bronze escutcheons. Through heraldic armorials, the wearer has been identified as the younger son of a noble Frisian family. The man, having no hope for inheriting the fief, turned mercenary and was recruited for the campaign in the Baltic. Instead of finding his fortune, he found his grave together with hundreds of others. The loss of Gotland was the first of several blows that step by step impoverished the island, which was to see more invasions, changing hands several times before being finally reclaimed by Sweden. Still, the Gotlanders remember the battle, and they see themselves as Gotlanders first, Swedes second. Even today, some of the people in the countryside think the people of Visby betrayed them.
The Battlefield Today
Some time after the battle, a convent was built at the site of the battle. A cross was erected, bearing an inscription in Latin: ANNO DOMINI MCCC LXI FERIA IIIA POST IACOBI ANTE PORTAS WISBY IN MANUIBUS DANORUM CECIDERUNT GUTENSES HIC SEPULTI ORATE PRO EIS ("In the year of our Lord 1361 on the 27th of July in front of the gates of Visby fell the Gotlanders here buried in the hands of the Danes; pray for them."). Today, part of what is thought to be the battlefield is built upon, but a wide area outside the eastern part of the city wall is left open. Every year since 1984, there is a medieval festival on the island held in the beginning of August. One of the pageants is the entry by King Valdemar, who is mocked by the populace while his soldiers gather the burghers' riches. Myth and plays soften the trauma of 1361, but a visit to the county museum shows the facts behind it all. In glass cases, some of the sorry remains of the peasants are on display, together with some rusty mail and a few coats-of-plates. More can be seen in the Statens Historiska Muséum in Stockholm, Sweden, and in the Nationalmuséet in Copenhagen, Denmark. Almost every book on medieval warfare or armor mentions the Battle of Visby, together with photos of coats-of-plates and a skull encased in a mail coif. Thus has a minor battle become known for a greater audience. I guess the Gotlanders could have lived without that claim to fame.
Sources
Carlsson, Sten & Jerker Rosén: Den svenska historien, vol. 2 (1966)
Medeltidens ABC (1985)
Nordberg, Michael: I kung Magnus tid (1995)
Thordeman, Bengt. Korsbetingen (1982)
Öhman, Christer: Helgon, bönder och krigare (1994)
© 1999 Björn Hellqvist
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Re: The Battle of Visby -
05-16-2002, 10:59 PM
Thanx for your addition to the thread. I have never heard of The Battle of Visby until 4 months ago, now I feel I have a wealth of knowledge at my disposal about this sad event in history.
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Re: Re: The Battle of Visby -
05-16-2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Thomas Bengston
Thanx for your addition to the thread. I have never heard of The Battle of Visby until 4 months ago, now I feel I have a wealth of knowledge at my disposal about this sad event in history.
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A quick note: I mentioned that some of the finds are on display in Stockholm. Since I wrote the that, the displayed pieces have been removed, waiting for a rebuilt exhibition area. A site in Swedish, dealing with the battlefield finds is a small compensation.
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Re: Re: Re: The Battle of Visby -
05-17-2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Björn Hellqvist
A quick note: I mentioned that some of the finds are on display in Stockholm. Since I wrote the that, the displayed pieces have been removed, waiting for a rebuilt exhibition area. A site in Swedish, dealing with the battlefield finds is a small compensation.
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wow....wow....wow
this is a fabulous website.....unbelievable
wow
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Visby -
05-31-2002, 08:12 PM
Keegan in his book "Faces Of Combat", states that the bodies at Visby were buried still wearing their armor. This was supposed to be quite unusual. Has a definitive reason ever been determined for this?

Originally posted by Matt Easton
I did my degree dissertation based on Thordeman's books 
Most of the recent publications on armour have pretty much repeated what Thordeman wrote in 1939, but missed so much of the subtelty and all the detail.
There is only one decent modern work on the coat-of-plates in my view, and that's an excavation report from Prussia (I'd have to dig out the referrences as I have no idea where they are right now).
Thordeman's books are a must-have for any student of medieval armour, eastern or western.
The armour was all found at a site where the Battle of Visby was fought between the local Swedish Gotlanders and the Royal Danish army (with German merceneries) in 1361. The Danish army was victorious, and in the 1930's many grave-pits were discovered littered with skeletons, some of which had coats of plates and maille on them, and some of the armour had been thrown into the pits separately. There are also coat-of-plate constructed gauntlets. Amongst the dead, were men and women of all ages and states of health.
The books contain a full excavation report, as well as some of the history, and a large section investigating the development of the coat-of-plates. Also there are scale drawings of all the armours.
Matt
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05-31-2002, 09:18 PM
Hi Albert,
Simply this - armour was a saleable commodity. There is evidence of a great deal of second hand armour trade - and it was considered to be a heathen practise to bury the dead with grave goods in christendom.
Other excavated sites (the Towten grave as an instance) show the bodies to heve been stripped before burial. In point of fact some manuscript illuminations illustrate scenes of post battle burial, where the stripped dead are gathered up into linen sacks (including dissacociated limbs), and being placed into pits for burial.
The reason the Wisby pits contained armour is most likely presumed to be the equipment was outdated, and having occured during high Summer, the corpses were rapidly putrefying before the Danes or locals got around to burying them, so they threw them into the pit with gear and all.
A brief gruesome note, when the Wisby pits were excavated nearly some 600 years after the burials occured, the earth still stank of decomposition. This is not so unusual as you might think. In example at Gettysburg, the dead were of course removed over several years to the National Cemetary, so there is unlikely any stray human remains, but the horses were buried where they fell. When the conditions of heat and humidity are just right, the sickly-sweet odure can be faintly caught near the pits they buried the horses in. This after nearly 140 years.
Bob Reed
These Emperourers these prynces and these kings
Whan they ben armed in bryght plate and mayle
Without horse what were theyr mustrynges
Theyr brode baners or theyr ryche apparayle
Tofore ther enemyes to shewe hem in batayle
Without horse/spere/swerde/ne shelde
Might lytell avayle for to holde a felde.........
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05-31-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Bob Reed
The reason the Wisby pits contained armour is most likely presumed to be the equipment was outdated, and having occured during high Summer, the corpses were rapidly putrefying before the Danes or locals got around to burying them, so they threw them into the pit with gear and all.
Please note that of the 1,800 buried (or so - not all graves have been excavated), less than 30 dead were buried wearing body armour. Also, apart from a few mailshirts and some kind of lamellar armour, there were 25 coats-of-plates, which could be considered as modern armour by 1361 standards, and certainly not outdated. The theory that the corpses were lying around for a few days before they could be buried seems right - imagine bloated corpses in c-o-p's, buckles straining under the pressure...
A brief gruesome note, when the Wisby pits were excavated nearly some 600 years after the burials occured, the earth still stank of decomposition.
While there might have been a smell, the reports from contemporary newspapers that the diggers had to wear gas masks were exaggerated.
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Just out of curiosity..... -
06-01-2002, 08:43 AM
I have not been able to successfully find evidence of how similar the mail and armour was (or was not) between the Wisby find and the Viking era in Scandinavia. American Libraries are not lending to the comparison.
Is anyone out there who could elaborate on such a comparison?
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06-02-2002, 04:30 PM
Hi guys - I'm just flying through, so forgive me if someone already moted this, but not all of the coats of plates at wisby were on corpses. Also there were gauntlets etc that were not associated with skeletones - they had been thrown into the grave-pit for some reason...
Interesting that there were no weapons except for arrowheads, and no helmets.
Matt
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