To wear on the hip, or on the back?

[Ross D.]

I have not had the privilege of handling to many swords as of yet, much less wearing very many of them on my person. I was wondering at what blade length it would be most practical to wear the sword in a back hangar as opposed to at my hip, assuming the fact that I am 6' 3". Anyone got any ideas from experience? Please feel free to refer to your own heights in relation to blades that you are used to as that will give me some sense of relativity as well.

[Markus H.]

You wear a sword on your hip, which you want to be able to draw quickly - the longer it gets the more difficult it is to draw. 100 cm blade length is about the limit for me (180 cm tall) to draw from the hip (not to mention that you tend to knock over a lot of stuff with such long swords on the hip).

Everything you don't want to draw fast you carry on your back/shoulder, pull down the harness/scabbard and draw it holding the scabbard in one hand, the sword in the other. You have to keep in mind that you can't draw anything longer than your arm from a full length back scabbard (much less to sheath it back again without cutting yourself).

[Scott Byler]

Hi Ross... Well, back carry is less a function of height than it is of arm length. If you intend to draw from the back, then you will find that it is not as easy as it might first appear. I'm not sure how much blade you could expect to draw from there...

Hip carry is more historically correct, *in general*. It is easier to carry a longer blade and actually draw it from there...

[Choo-Leong Kua]

To draw from the back is quite limiting with respect to blade length. Personally, if I try with my KC 26"(has a length of about 27 inches tip to tsuba) worn slightly low, I can barely draw the sword, and not too fast either compared to at the hip. I'm about 168 cm. To resheathe is another deal, not like in the movies or video games where they can do it without looking and in one try, huh? Also, the risk of cutting yourself is not good. Probably work more comfortably at 23" and under. So you are stuck with wakizashi length blades and other short swords. Although, the curved blade seems to facilitate the length limit a bit. I have a straight wooden sword I made myself and it seems that the limit is at 24" for that. I agree it may be arm lengths being the primary determining factor.

[Ross D.]

Haha, yeah, I have often envisioned what it must be like to draw from the back, and I did come to the conclusion about the arm length coming into it. It would take a helluva lot of practice to be able to do that smoothly as well.

But I also know that there is a limit to how long a sword can be and still practically wear it at the hip without tripping all over it :P. I was mainly wondering so that, when I look at the various websites I can look at all the pros and cons including whether I would have to wear it on my back, or whether I could wear it at my side.

The one sword that I do own is really a beater, I got it in Germany about 4 years ago with a very superb black leather double swordbelt with the sheath integrated into the belt itself. It is blunt edged and is actually made for realistic stage fighting. It's a real sword, though, from the very beginning I knew I wanted something that wasn't just a wallhanger :P but the wonderful thing is that both the sword and swordbelt only cost me the equivalent of about $250 where I would normally expect to pay that much or more for the magnificent belt and sheath here in America.

So, at the very least, I have a very nice belt and sheath that will last me forever and a halfway decent beater sword. But I can't wait until I scrounge up enough money to get a nicer, more quality made sword.

The one thing that makes me sad though is that the sheath is only 32 inches long, and, as I want to start getting into longswords, this means that I will also have to buy a new sheath and belt to fit a longer variety of blade

EDIT: Its late and I can't spell

[Allen Johnson]

Hardly any swords were carried across the back- despite what all the movies depics. As far as I know only the two hand claymore and i think the German Zweihander had back slings. Everything else was on the hip.

[Matthew Krull]

So here is my question, I have 52" (overall, 42" blade) two hander. How the blazes am I supposed to carry this thing? It seems waaay to long to wear on the hip, and my arms are long, but not nearly long enough to draw from the shoulder.

The closest I can figure is the have a back baldric(?) with a sheath that only holds the first foot or so of blade, and then up near the shoulder have two hooks that the cross will settle onto. That way I only need to lift the cross out of the hooks and draw it out from behind me (as opposed to over me shoulder). Resheathing is an entirely different matter that I haven't figured out yet...

I've seen a PC baldric like this that claims to support a 41" blade <evil voice> curses, foiled again </evil voice>
Althought, that was well over $100, and frankly, If I'm gonna hand out that much money for a PC product, I'd rather get me a banshee...

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally posted by Matthew Krull
So here is my question, I have 52" (overall, 42" blade) two hander. How the blazes am I supposed to carry this thing? It seems waaay to long to wear on the hip, and my arms are long, but not nearly long enough to draw from the shoulder.

The closest I can figure is the have a back baldric(?) with a sheath that only holds the first foot or so of blade, and then up near the shoulder have two hooks that the cross will settle onto. That way I only need to lift the cross out of the hooks and draw it out from behind me (as opposed to over me shoulder). Resheathing is an entirely different matter that I haven't figured out yet...

I've seen a PC baldric like this that claims to support a 41" blade <evil voice> curses, foiled again </evil voice>
Althought, that was well over $100, and frankly, If I'm gonna hand out that much money for a PC product, I'd rather get me a banshee...

er.. rapiers had blades about that length, and they were historically worn on the hip... you're not taking into account the fact that the frog has to hold on to something, about 4 inches, and the scabbard itself wont be pushed all the way back passed your hip, to you're really only dealing with 34 inches behind you. put a nice, pointy chape on it and let it become the person behind you's problem

my Atrim/CHristian Flether ranger has a blade length i believe of 37 inches. it doesn't cause problems.

actually, a two hander? that would be a back scabbard thing..

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Back_Slings.html

best bet is to call them and inquire.

they would not historically carry a two hander unless they were going to war if i remember right.. there was no point, too bulky to fight with effectively. they would also carry it, sheathed or unsheathed, holding the grip in hand with the blade pointing out back over their shoulder. or they'd find a way of strapping it to their backs.

[Adam Welch]

I know I know, I love the sword movies too and its hard most of the time for me to distinguish fact from fiction. You have to remember though, the people back then wern't really different from us, they just had different weapons and tools. Carrying a big sword around when it wasn't really needed was just as crazy back then as it would be to us now, well, you might not get arrested as much but anyway. Like some others have said, when you needed a big sword you would almost certainly know it before hand. So you might have some type of apperatis to carry it to a location, have time to remove it, and then have time to pack it up again. But if you really want a semi fast-draw back sling, take a look at the Battle of Sterling scene from Braveheart. When William is running into battle, he has his sword on his back, but instead of pulling it over the shoulder, it is released by a leather strap and pulled from the side. However, this is only possible when the sword is without scabbard. Albion Armourers used to have a system like this some time back that looked sweet, you could check there.

[Alan_F]

In 1947, the Colonel of the Gordon Highlanders thought it would be a good idea to have his officers wear their swords across their backs. He believed it would be somewhat impressive when they drew them to take the salute whilst on parade.

After two officers ended up in hospital as a result, he withdrew the idea with the words "I prefer my officers to have their ears attached to them"

[Allen Johnson]

With back scabbards, you would almost always remove the scabbard- then draw the sword. You wouldnt be trying to take it out or sheath it with it still on your back. All the stuff that you see in movies where they are drawing and resheathing while on the back is fantasy. Remember, for the most part, a quick draw- so to speak- was not necessary. Especially with the bigger swords. They are for transporting the blade safely. You know when you are going to use it- you arent going to be charcing into battle with your sword still in its scabbard. Of course you arent going to be charging into battle in the 13th century wearing a kilt, but thats what happens in movies.
Now with the legnth issue. Remember the sword will be hanging at an angle, so its still ok it the overall legnth of the sword is taller than you are hip to ground. That and the hilt is usually about at waist level- so with the longer handled weapons, that takes up some space too.

[Dimytri Komanatov]

With the proper hanger, bringing a large, back-slung sword to bear is actually very easy and very fast (relatively). Using the wrong hanger (or usig a sheath) on the back makes it extremely impractical, as has been pointed out above.

But again ... with the proper hanger, it is very easy and very fast. What's the right hanger? ... depends on the sword.

[Ross D.]

Thanks for your insights. I really didn't know much about back slings and scabbards historically so this has been quite enlightening.

[Matthew Krull]

This has indeed been very enlightening. My sword in question does not in fact have a sheath, and I wanted a simple hangar... I have some ideas and some places to look (such as albion). Thanks guys

[Carter Leffen]

Ross,

I'm a short bloke, only 5'6", and with my small sword, 25" blade, I can go either with a frog hanger, or a back scabbard. I have a nifty "Quick Release Baldric" from Ravenswood Leather that is great for swords with one edged side... I use this for my Grosse Messer, but will be using a 1.5" rapier baldric when I get my Atrim DN1506, with a dagger frog for the ATD002. {All the leather I have, I get from Reginald and Larkin at http://www.ravenswoodleather.com/ Service and quality of product are superb...} The rapier hanger is best for me, especially with the long sword- if I'm wanting/needing FAST access... If I'm not feeling particuarly threatened, I'll carry her on my back with a simple thieve's baldric, also from Ravenswood... The rapier hanger is easier for a short bloke, while for the gent with long arms can wear either... Hope this gives a bit more perspective... You, my friend, can wear either rig... If you're a bowyer, then go with the back hanger, as bow and arrows will reach out and touch someone much sooner than a sword... By the time you'd have to use the sword, you'll have time to unlimber her, and set to business... Oh, as tall as you are, be careful when running with a sword hanging from your belt... You have far greater distance to fall, than us short little warts...
Good luck, and have fun...

Carter

[Alina Boyden]

Historically, the Arabs did make extensive use of back slung swords. Traditional arabs swords were straight and double edged and relatively short. For some reason, a back carry became popular amongst the Arabian infantry during the time of the Arab conquests. In fact, hip carry didn't catch on for quite some time in the Islamic Middle East. Baldrics were far more popular until after the Mongol invasions.

Alina

[Jack Collins]

I think you'll find there wasn't a lot of old-west quick-drawing done with larger war-swords, long-swords, etc. Most likely the scabbard was tied to the saddle of one's horse, and left once the sword was drawn. I imagine they may have been slun on the back for TRANSPORT, but not when they were going to be needed.

[Michael Stora]

If a sword is too long for hip carry, you might try it rib level suspended from the opposite shoulder. This works quire well. Esp. with longer sword, the back is more a storage position.

Mike

[Andrew Winston]

Originally posted by Alina Boyden
Historically, the Arabs did make extensive use of back slung swords. Traditional arabs swords were straight and double edged and relatively short. For some reason, a back carry became popular amongst the Arabian infantry during the time of the Arab conquests. In fact, hip carry didn't catch on for quite some time in the Islamic Middle East. Baldrics were far more popular until after the Mongol invasions.

Alina

I believe you are correct, Alina. Ayutthaya period Thai warriors also wore their krabi/darb slung across the back, often one being drawn over each shoulder. These are not particularly long swords either.

Andrew

[Alina Boyden]

Originally posted by Andrew Winston
I believe you are correct, Alina. Ayutthaya period Thai warriors also wore their krabi/darb slung across the back, often one being drawn over each shoulder. These are not particularly long swords either.

Andrew

Wow Andrew, a historic example of the x-position swords on the back! I never thought I would see that.

I got 6 or 7 osprey books as well as 2 books of a more scholarly nature all concerning Islamic arms and armour. What we see is that the Arabs used relatively short swords and that back carry was preferred. I think that contrary to the image of the huge sword on the back; back carry is actual something traditionally used for much shorter swords.

[Ross D.]

Those are some really great pictures! I have also never seen a historical example of wearing the swords in an X on the back, that is really cool. Lots of good historical info too, thanks ladies and gents.

I was thinking about the moving around comfortably thing as well. When I wear the sword that I have now which is about 31.5 inches in the blade it already goes down to about mid-calf, and, since I am not used to walking with a sword at my hip that is somewhat awkward already. So maybe, if I want to get something with a longsword format that I can still wear semi-comfortably, I will go with something on the order of Gus' Northern Italian, with the nice long handle for comfortable 2 handed wielding while still being compact enough to wear comfortably.

[Mark Lee]

While it was a novel, sci-fi fantasy at that, the hero didn't sling his sword at all. Too long for the hip and the back doesn't work. He carried his scabbarded long sword in his left hand. The stated reason was, if the sword was needed, nothing was faster than having it already in hand. Draw the sword and drop the scabbard. If you won the fight, you can go back and get it. If you lose, you don't have to worry about it.

[Glen S. Ramsay]

I'm glad you posted that pic, Andrew! I have two Hanwei Banshees that I'm having the hilts customized (fantasy style, so sorry to all you purists! ), and was wondering how to wear on my back. In answer to the blade drawing thing, they are 21 inch blades, and are perfect for drawing from the back...
Here is a photoshopped image of the two back mounting styles I am considering, but now I may just go with the X...

[Allen Johnson]

Thanks for the info on the Arab and eastern back sling styles. I should have specified in my posts that I was refering to Euro styles. Thanks for the info.

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally posted by Glen S. Ramsay
I'm glad you posted that pic, Andrew! I have two Hanwei Banshees that I'm having the hilts customized (fantasy style, so sorry to all you purists! ), and was wondering how to wear on my back. In answer to the blade drawing thing, they are 21 inch blades, and are perfect for drawing from the back...
Here is a photoshopped image of the two back mounting styles I am considering, but now I may just go with the X...

glen, nice design there. my only suggestion, and this is from my own personal experience with a back scabbard (i can draw a 28 inch blade this way) is that you should have the mouth of the scabbard a little higher than the top of your shoulder.

its easier to put away in my experience.