What do korean swords look like and what are their styles?

[StephenNapurano]

Mark Bowditch told you me that scott and philip could help me with this question.

[Thomas Chen]

Stephen

Trying reading the post I have just brought forward on " Trying to identify Chinese sword w/ Silver Handle & Inlays " by Michael Robertson.

It has some pics of Korean swords and stuff. If I understand correctly, Korean swordsmanship today consists of at least 2 schools, Haedong Gumdo (The Way of the Sword of the Eastern Ocean) and Kuk Sool Won.

Title: The Fighting Weapons of Korean Martial Arts
Author: In Hyuk Suh (Founder of Kuk Sool Won) and Jane Hallander
Publisher: Unique Publications, Inc. 1988

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...roduct-details

This book has some decent info on Kuk Sool Won swordsmanship.

____________________________________


Go to www.turtlepress.com and look for 2 videos on Korean swordsmanship:

http://www.turtlepress.com/shopdispl...10&cat=Weapons

and a book called Muye Dobo Tongji, the only surviving classical Korean martial arts cum swordsmanship manual ever published.

http://www.turtlepress.com/shopexd.asp?id=229

Related video:
http://www.turtlepress.com/shopexd.asp?id=232





Hope this helps.......

[Craig R.]

Korean Swords and swordmanship are not as readily reconizable as Chinese and Japanese swords and sword techniques.

Instead of the warrior adapting to the sword, in Korea, the sword was adopted to the warrior. You will find that both China and Japan have influenced Korean swordmanship, which the Koreans have modified for their own use.

However, 30+ years of Japanese rule in Korea in the early part of the 20th century managed to destroy a lot of Korean history and culture. Combined with hundreds of years of neglect by the Koreans themselves (Martial arts were frowned upon by the goverment long before the Japanese occupied the country) has made finding Korean swords and swordmanship difficult.

The information in the above post is a good place to start, and the only thing I can add is that Hwang Rang Do also teaches sword. There's not too many others that can claim that.

Craig R.

[Thomas Chen]

Hi guys

Check out these modern-made Korean-style swords from a Korean Kumdo website:






The link (need Korean language support) is at:
http://kumdo.adall.co.kr/main.htm

Other pics --- from http://www.sehyun-sword.co.kr/e-realsword-seath.htm

Sharkskin wrapped scabbard


Mother-of-pearl inlays


Now....I've got to get me one of these .....

And check out this article in English on those handcrafted and quaint little knives carried by Korean women to protect their dignity, still manufactured today:

http://www.women.or.kr/ehtml/culture...do/chang1.html

[wai_shingc]

I think those are actually Japanese swords, Kumdo (Korean) probably means Kendo(Japanese), or Gim do (Cantonese)/Jian Do(Mandarine)

Anyway the Japanese and Koreans are close neighbours and are both affected by the chinese, so its not surprising to find quite some similiarities in their cultures.

[Anthony Boyd]

...And once again I reply to a really old post...

It would be almost impossible to identify a Korean sword by sight in a photograph. The differences between them and Japanese versions are noticeable more in direct comparison than individual inspection.

You can look at mine if you like. Pictures and video are available on my website: www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo

[Manouchehr M.]

Originally posted by Thomas Chen
Hi guys

Check out these modern-made Korean-style swords from a Korean Kumdo website:






The link (need Korean language support) is at:
http://kumdo.adall.co.kr/main.htm

Other pics --- from http://www.sehyun-sword.co.kr/e-realsword-seath.htm
Thank you for the links Thomas. Very interesting.
Sharkskin wrapped scabbard


Mother-of-pearl inlays


Now....I've got to get me one of these .....

And check out this article in English on those handcrafted and quaint little knives carried by Korean women to protect their dignity, still manufactured today:

http://www.women.or.kr/ehtml/culture...do/chang1.html

[Craig R.]

Originally posted by Manoucher M.
Originally posted by Thomas Chen
Hi guys

Check out these modern-made Korean-style swords from a Korean Kumdo website:






The link (need Korean language support) is at:
http://kumdo.adall.co.kr/main.htm

Other pics --- from http://www.sehyun-sword.co.kr/e-realsword-seath.htm

I got 404 for both these sites. Are they gone, or is it AOL being funky again??

Craig

[Keith Jennings]

When I was in Korea last year, I saw many examples of antique korean swords when I visited the Korean Military Museum in Seoul.

What I saw was the older Korean sword looked like Chinese Gim; some single-handed, while other were two-handed swords.

The later swords looked just like katanas, save that most of them had wooden handles with tassels hanging off of them and the gum jeeps(scabbards) were pretty fancy looking.
The blades of the swords also appeared to be slightly less curved than a Japanese blade.

If anyone gets the chance to go to the Korean Military Museum, then I highly recommend it. The sword displays were very cool, with picture of the Muye Dobo Tongji flanking the swords.

I took some pictures, its just a shame that most of the picture I took suck!

[Thomas Chen]

Hi guys

The revised links are:

http://www.sehyun-kumdo.com/e-realsword.htm

[Bruce W Sims]

Many thanks for posting the pics. Of course it, then, begs the obvious question.

Has anyone actually purchased a Korean sword directly from Korea? I know on many threads people discuss the relative merits of purchasing Bugei, or Chen or CAS blades and the discuss, of course, usually focuses on Japanese architecture. Has anyone actually bought a Korean sword from Korea for themselves? Does anyone have any information that they would care to share? In my own case, my sword is a hand-forged piece purchased from Korean, but it was brought to me by my teacher rather than being purchased through some commertial concern such as a website. Inquiring minds would like to know.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Bruce W Sims]

I was hoping to find a picture rather than a drawing of a Ming Dao and for those of you who are familiar with Jornal od Asian Martial Arts you may want to turn to the article on the "Native Sword Form" by Del Pia in Volume 4, #2. The Chinese gentleman who was referenced by the author is shown performing the opening moves of BON KUK GUEM BUP hyung using a sword which would be very close to the sort of weapon identified in the Mu Yei To Bo Tong Ji.

By the way, I am starting a new string on the subject of this hyung in case anyone wants to check it out.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

Did we ever find any information about these Korean swords (quality, price, etc.)?

[David Black Mastro]

Because of Korea's unique history, tracing the styles of swords (and swordplay) used there can be difficult. As has already been indicated on this thread, Korea took influences from both China and Japan.

It should be stressed that, like the Chinese, the Koreans historically placed more emphasis on archery than on close-quarters shock combat. Both the Chinese and the Koreans used the Asiatic composite bow that was made so famous by the Mongols, Turks, etc. During the Imjin War of 1592-98, the Japanese acknowledged that archery was the one aspect in which their Korean foes were superior (the composite bow being more powerful and having a longer range than the yumi which was used by the samurai). Korea maintains a strong archery tradition to this very day.

About Haedong Kumdo and Kumdo--these are simply Korean versions of Japanese arts (though some revisionist historians occasionally claim otherwise). Yudo (the Korean version of Judo) is another obvious example.

As can be seen from the various photos posted, the Koreans used both straight, double-edged Chinese types as well as swords that resembled the Japanese katana. Because of the close proximity of Korea, China, and Japan, this is hardly surprising. On the average, though, it would appear that the Continental Asian influence predominated, and one can see this in all areas--pre-gunpowder weapons, armor, and firearms.

David Black Mastro

[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

Good observations, David, but I was actually meaning to ask about that specific company's offerings.

I actually like that kum/jian straight sword, but it appears they only offer a decorative version.





Seems like, as in China, the Korean jian got phased out militarily and was relegated to civilian or court use. It's not even discussed in the substantive parts of the Muye Dobo Tongji.

[Bruce W Sims]

Dear Ruel:

I am not so sure this is true.

I am still in the middle of research, but it is becoming plain that the hyung presented in the MYTBTJ are intended for sword types other than what is illustrated in the manual. For instance, the Ssang Soo Do Chong Bo (pgs 131 to 140) is reportedly taken from General Qi's (Miao Dao) Xing Yu Dao Fa. One would reasonably expect that this hyung would be executed with the large sabre-like weapon of that sort. On the other hand, the Ye Do hyung reportedly attrtibuted to Chapter 86 of the Wu Bei Zhi. Though identified as a "short sword" hyung in the MYTBTJ and executed with a smaller "katana-like" sabre, may have been originally intended as a being performed with a two-handed Jian.
Of course there is the entire chapter on the Japanese sword hyungs entitled "Wae Guem" and it is plain what style of sword such information would speak to. However, the single most important hyung in Korean sword, Bon Kuk Guem Bup, though often performed with a sabre-type weapon, may, in actuality be more closely related to Jian work. The votes are not all in on this, but I am reasonably sure that when one compares the execution of most of its techniques to both dao and jian work, it bears much closer comparison to the latter than the former. Of course this is only one persons' opinion, but it seems to have a growing body of evidence to support it. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

Thanks for that information Bruce; it's most interesting. I wonder now if the very use of jian cognates in describing the arts -- kum-do and ken-do -- might itself indicate that the forms were originally for straight double-edged blades. I look forward to reading what your research turns up!

[David Black Mastro]

Originally posted by Ruel A. Macaraeg
Thanks for that information Bruce; it's most interesting. I wonder now if the very use of jian cognates in describing the arts -- kum-do and ken-do -- might itself indicate that the forms were originally for straight double-edged blades. I look forward to reading what your research turns up!

I wouldn't read too deeply into the use of "jian cognates" for kumdo and kendo, if only because both of those forms are based on the use of a bamboo mock-up of a katana or katana-like weapon, which is single-edged, hatchet-pointed (i.e., a point adapted to efficient cutting), and capable of one or two-handed use.

This sort of stuff can get tricky. Chinese terminology parallels that of some European cultures--one can compare the Chinese distinction between the double-edged straight sword (jian) and the single-edged saber (dao) with the Italian equivilents, the spada and sciabla (later referred to as the sciabola) respectively.

Although ken is the Japanese version of the jian, we must not forget that it also simply means "sword", without necessarily being specific as to what kind of sword. This is also similar to European terminology, where words like spada, espada, espee, etc., could refer to many different types of swords. Today, we specifically refer to an epee as the non-conventional weapon of modern fencing, with a trefoil-sectioned blade, and yet the word "epee" likewise simply means "sword". Meanings can change with the times.

Sincerely,

David Black Mastro

[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

Meanings can change with the times.

The question, though, is what motivated those changes in the Korean and Japanese contexts. Notice that the process didn't take place in China; "jian" didn't replace "dao" as a generalized term for both straight double-edged and curved single-edged swords.

In the European case, at least, I think the generalization of "sword" to include sabers was due largely to the fact that the saber assumed both the functional and symbolic roles of straight swords in military and ceremonial use. That doesn't necessarily mean that happened in Korea and Japan, though, and Bruce's comments suggest that some of the motivation may have involved a transfer of techniques.